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Deposit and withdrawal methods: Santander puts account on hold - help please (Page 8)

Topic created on 16th Aug. 2024 | Page: 8 of 10 | Answers: 144 | Views: 7,921
Rainmann
Elite

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 05:16 pm CEST#106
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That's the problem with gambling in unlicensed casinos. Maybe this will teach you a lesson and you'll stop playing. I hope things turn out well for you

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gamble1
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Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 05:18 pm CEST#107
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Liked this post: Avatar von frapi07 frapi07

frapi07 wrote on August 22nd, 2024 at 5:13 pm:

If that's not enough for them, then please say nothing more about it and get a lawyer immediately.

That's how I would currently do it. Gamble1 is right. It wouldn't be smart to come up with lawyers now, even though there isn't 100% suspicion yet. First see if they are satisfied with the Binance stuff and if not, then you know what suspicion is in the room and how you have to act.

Especially as it's also not wise to willingly provide them with everything you have a right to your private things, whether it's an audit or not, so if they are missing something you can always say "oh yes, I have that at home, I'll have to come back"


It will be fine my dear

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Chriiiis
Rookie

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 05:34 pm CEST#108
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I have already told the guy on the spot that I have done a bit of sports betting.... I will seek legal advice on what would happen if I could prove that I won on stake

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gamble1
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Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 06:06 pm CEST#109
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Chriiiis wrote on 22.08.2024 at 17:34: I have already told the guy on site that I have done some sports betting...... I will get legal advice on what would happen if it is proven that I won on stake

Just because you told him something like that doesn't mean they want to have proof of it, it may be enough for them if they know that all the amounts are in your name and only come from you or from accounts in your name


You can save yourself the lawyer for the question if they find out about Stake or generally a casino without a license, you incriminate yourself and admit the violation, you are not even obliged to do so in Germany if you are in court and then certainly not at the bank

In such a case, you have committed a criminal offense, namely participation in illegal gambling, which is punishable by a prison sentence of up to 6 months or a fine of up to 180 daily rates (in practice, it is usually discontinued but unfortunately not always)

You won't go to jail for this but please don't make it too easy for them, don't incriminate yourself and only bring things to them when asked no matter how nice the counselor is he can't help you and also out of ignorance it doesn't help you because he has to report all cases

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Chriiiis
Rookie

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 06:18 pm CEST#110
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You're absolutely right. I just always talk far too quickly....
The question is still what should I show them? He said himself the other day when I told him I could prove to him that the money came from my Binance account "yes, I can see what went in and out" he will want to know the origin of the money because I can prove nothing except payments from a casino.

Nevertheless, I have now bought a membership with justanswers for €5 for a 3-day trial subscription. You can get legal advice there. Can't do any harm!

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Chriiiis
Rookie

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 06:30 pm CEST#111
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So.

Got an answer from the lawyer. As you said, I can first try to see if the binance excerpts are enough, otherwise I can still say that I played sports betting, I don't have to name a name directly.


You: I have a second account, which I only used to buy cryptocurrencies from Binance. I won some money in an online cryptocasino (stake) with a license on Curacao, which I then paid out again and again at Binance and from Binance to my bank account. In total, we're talking about a turnover of €10-13,000, sometimes some went in, sometimes some went out, but ultimately €4,000 remained from the win. Now the bank has blocked my account and they want proof.

The bank account has no connection to gambling, it's just transfers to Binance and withdrawals from Binance.

What is enough proof for the banks? I can't say that I played in a casino that doesn't have a license in Germany? I definitely don't want the money to continue to be confiscated. What should I do?
What can happen if I tell the bank that I have deposited the money at the casino in question (which is not on the whitelist)? Would they still close the account and report me on suspicion of illegal gambling?
And if this is the case, what are the chances that the whole thing will be dropped?
And am I generally entitled to the money? thank you!

Answer:



Thank you for your patience.

The money is yours and you can therefore claim it in principle. Illegal gambling is only punishable under the Criminal Code if you knowingly and willingly participated in illegal gambling, i.e. if you knew that the casino did not have a license. This cannot simply be assumed; you would have to be able to prove it. As this cannot be proven in most cases, the conviction rates for participation in illegal gambling are very low. As a result, you do not have to expect the money to be confiscated. It is advisable that you explain the origin of the money truthfully and, if necessary, point out that you did not know that the casino did not have a license.


I hope I have been able to help you with my information.
Please give a rating (3-5 stars) by clicking on the rating stars. Thank you very much.



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Butterbrezel
Elite

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 07:02 pm CEST#112
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Liked this post: Avatar von Max_Bet Max_Bet, Avatar von Rainmann Rainmann
OMFG please stop with these pseudo online lawyers, it's disgusting.

The stress you are now having with the bank is not because of illegal gambling, but because of suspected money laundering. The bank advisor has already told you that (suspicious transactions). They know nothing about gambling.

The statement "The money belongs to you and you can therefore claim it in principle." is garbage.
The money is yours, that's true, but it will be blocked by the bank for as long as necessary for the investigation.
And the judge will decide whether you can keep the money if you are charged with illegal gambling.

At the moment, however, it is obviously "only" suspected money laundering.

I don't understand it either, you have a forum of gamblers here who either have professional knowledge or have been in this situation before and want to help you. And then you turn to some weird online lawyers who tell you crap and you even pay for it.

Also, the suggestion that illegal gambling is only illegal if you knew it was illegal is bullshit. The Interstate Gambling Treaty has been clearly regulated since 2021. Is shoplifting only punishable if I can prove that I know that shoplifting is punishable?

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Chriiiis
Rookie

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 07:11 pm CEST#113
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If I don't get legal advice, there will be grumbling; if I do, there will also be grumbling...

But the lawyer is also right, that's what the StGB says

"In German criminal law, illegal gambling is punishable under § 284 StGB if it is organized without official permission. Whether you are liable to prosecution depends on whether you knowingly and intentionally participated in illegal gambling or organized it.
To be liable to prosecution, you must have intent, which means that you knowingly and intentionally committed the act. If you did not know that it was illegal gambling, you generally lack intent. However, there is also the so-called conditional intent, where someone recognizes the possibility of illegal gambling but acts anyway. In this case, criminal liability could still apply.
So if you act without knowledge, criminal liability is generally excluded as there is no intent. However, if you could have recognized that it was illegal gambling and accepted this, you could still be liable to prosecution."


So what's the problem now? Why do you say he's full of shit?


Edit: Wrong smiley graphic removed

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Butterbrezel
Elite

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 07:17 pm CEST#114
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Chriiiis wrote on 22.08.2024 at 19:11: If I don't get legal advice, there will be complaints, if I do, there will also be complaints...

We are a player forum here. We have tried to support you here - free of charge.


If you get proper legal advice, a proper lawyer who does this for a living, that's ok.
He will certainly know more than we do here.

But your weird online lawyer sites for 5 EUR in a trial subscription WTF is not legal advice but, as you can see from the quoted text, at a low ChatGPT level.

Lawyer > Forum > Online lawyers for 5,00 EUR

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gamble1
Icon

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 07:22 pm CEST#115
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Chriiiis wrote on 22.08.2024 at 19:11: If I don't get legal advice, there will be grumbling, if I do, there will be grumbling too...

But the lawyer is also right, that's what it says in the StGB

"In German criminal law, illegal gambling is punishable under § 284 StGB if it is organized without official permission. Whether you are liable to prosecution depends on whether you knowingly and intentionally participated in illegal gambling or organized it.
To be liable to prosecution, you must have intent, which means that you knowingly and intentionally committed the act. If you did not know that it was illegal gambling, you generally lack intent. However, there is also the so-called conditional intent, where someone recognizes the possibility of illegal gambling but acts anyway. In this case, criminal liability could still apply.
So if you act without knowledge, criminal liability is generally excluded as there is no intent. However, if you could have recognized that it was illegal gambling and accepted this, you could still be liable to prosecution."


So what's the problem now? Why do you say he's full of shit?

I really sympathize with you and this exceptional psychological situation and I can well imagine how it must feel when you are so powerless and can only watch what is being investigated here, but I also think (of course I can't guarantee it 100% legally, but I have a feeling) that the lawyer told you crap


Basically, it's your money, but as Butterbrezel already said, the question is whether this money has come into your possession legally and if it hasn't, then it doesn't belong to you but will be confiscated

You won't be convicted so quickly in Germany, of course, but unfortunately ignorance is no excuse for punishment, which means that even if you really didn't know anything about legal or illegal casinos, the judge can still punish you - the question here is whether a public prosecutor wants to make a big deal out of it if there isn't much to be gained, but in principle the judge can punish you even if you didn't know anything because you could have informed yourself easily, even thanks to the new state treaty

I think you can find good lawyers on such portals, but your case is not yet the lawyers' bread and butter due to the relatively new legal situation and the constellation is relatively unfavorable

Edit: Wrong smiley graphic removed from quote

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Chriiiis
Rookie

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 07:23 pm CEST#116
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well, they're real lawyers who are under contract, so it's not... You can't assume that just because the trial subscription costs €5 that they don't know how the law works. I didn't expect them to deal with the bank for the money, I just wanted to make sure that I wouldn't incriminate myself if I had to go there again.

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gamble1
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Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 07:29 pm CEST#117
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Chriiiis wrote on 22.08.2024 at 19:23: well, they are real lawyers who are under contract so it's not... Just because the trial subscription costs €5 doesn't mean they don't know how the law works. I didn't expect them to deal with the bank for the money, I just wanted to make sure that I wouldn't incriminate myself if I had to go there again.

The question is, what good has it done you? If you go there now and tell them it's my money, you have to release it now, my lawyer said, we're back to the point where you're making yourself unnecessarily suspicious


Everything that has to do with a lawyer and is stated to the bank only makes you unnecessarily suspicious because someone who has nothing to hide and, moreover, someone who knew of no illegal act does not take a lawyer

In the end, they make it out as if you knew about everything, you knew about illegal and legal gambling and the possible suspicion of money laundering resulting from it and therefore countered it directly with a horde of lawyers

Zack they have the intent that you yourself provided them with through ill-considered actions

Take it easy I only mean well as long as they check everything is ok there has been no complaint or anything like that bring everything step by step maybe one of them sleeps well and the next morning a useless document makes sense and is better enough to hope for than to put everything directly on the table for them

And keep in mind that you are not a serious criminal even if you currently feel like one and they would like to sell it to you that way - you only played with your money and won

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Chriiiis
Rookie

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 07:29 pm CEST#118
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I have understood it but now it is rather suspicion because of money laundering and not illegal gambling best I should not start with it, on the other hand I have to prove to them the origin of the money. How am I supposed to do that? The origin is the casino.

That's what I'm worried about, should I say I'm an early pensioner and the €4,000 came to me? I don't know what to tell them and I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing, which is why I've asked lawyers.

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gamble1
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Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 07:32 pm CEST#119
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Liked this post: Avatar von Chriiiis Chriiiis
Chriiiis wrote on 22.08.2024 at 19:29: I have understood it but now it is rather suspicion of money laundering and not illegal gambling best I should not start with it, on the other hand I have to prove to them the origin of the money. How am I supposed to do that? The origin is the casino.

That's my problem, should I say I'm an early retiree and the 4000€ came to me? I don't know what to tell them and I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing, that's why I asked lawyers.

Don't you have any legal sites where you have played from time to time? Maybe transactions where you sold something? In the end, anything that somehow legitimizes you as having received the money would fit

I'm not judging you for the fear you have, I don't think anyone here is doing that, we're trying to help you and take away some of your fear

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frapi07
Elite

Santander puts account on hold - help please

22nd Aug. 2024, at 07:32 pm CEST#120
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Liked this post: Avatar von Butterbrezel Butterbrezel
Chriiiis wrote on 22.08.2024 at 19:23: well, they are real lawyers who are under contract so it's not... Just because the trial subscription costs €5 doesn't mean they don't know how the law works. I didn't expect them to deal with the bank for the money, I just wanted to make sure that I wouldn't incriminate myself if I had to go there again.

it may be that they are lawyers, but they certainly won't be able to offer you full support for the price. It's a lure - nothing more.

You could have saved yourself the €5 and used it for a real lawyer, because the answers they give you can a) be researched by yourself within a few seconds and b) you won't get any real help.

I think that's what Butterbrezel meant. He certainly didn't mean it in a negative way, but thought your actions were pointless - and I have to agree with him.

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