What foundation? Most of them only last as long as you're in the 1st and 2nd division. There are some that have completely crashed like Emmes V
or many ex-GDR clubs are only now slowly coming back, with Rostock perhaps having the most consistency since 1990
In France, it's the same as soon as the drip of money falls away, even a traditional club falls very quickly, see Bordeaux.
Of course, what also plays a role are the string-pullers in the background. I say Bayern, Barca, Real, there are other forces at work in the background.
Touchy123 wrote on 28.11.2024 at 11:17: What foundation? Most only feed as long as you are 1st and 2nd division. There are some that have completely crashed like the Emmes V
or many ex-GDR clubs are only now slowly coming back, although perhaps Rostock has had the most consistency since 1990
In France, it's the same as soon as the drip of money falls away, even a traditional club falls very quickly, see Bordeaux.
Of course, what also plays a role are the string-pullers in the background. I say Bayern, Barca, Real, there are other forces at work in the background.
The foundation members, fan scene, stadium, brand rights etc. and of course not least money, sponsors etc., which you also get because you have a name.
Of course you can lose that again, there's no question about it. But to organically rebuild something like that now, as was possible a few decades ago, is much more difficult or even impossible.
Stromberg wrote on 28.11.2024 at 10:22 am: I can kind of understand both...
Don't think much of all these billionaire investors either.
But you also have to realize that without an investor, a new team will never be able to play first-class football again in the long term. Never again is perhaps an exaggeration, but it will be a very difficult path that will remain the exception, if only because even the traditional clubs will snatch up the best players if a small club is suddenly promoted to the first division.
Is the solution now to say that the 25 or however many clubs that built up the right foundation 30 to 50 years ago should now forever remain the clubs that play in the first division in a small rotation?
You get it!
You don't have to like it, but always saying how stupid everyone is because they have sheikhs etc. doesn't help either. The only logical thing to do would be to distance yourself completely from paid soccer. That's not an option for me, if only because of sports betting. At the end of the day, most people just grumble but take out subscriptions to watch, run to the stadium, buy fan merchandise or bet on it. Time moves on and in this day and age, money rules soccer. And if you want to win titles or simply play at the top, you have to go with the flow. And even the oh-so-great traditional clubs are having their money blown out the back.
You don't have to like it, but always saying how stupid everyone is because they have sheikhs etc. doesn't help either. The only logical thing to do would be to distance yourself completely from paid soccer. That's not an option for me, if only because of sports betting. At the end of the day, most people just grumble but take out subscriptions to watch, run to the stadium, buy fan merchandise or bet on it. Time moves on and in this day and age, money rules soccer. And if you want to win titles or simply play at the top, you have to go with the flow. And even the oh-so-great traditional clubs are having their money blown out the back.
I completely agree with that! Modern soccer is almost impossible without big investors. History and traditions are important, but you can't stay at the top for long without finances.
He will do better than sahin in the short and long term. I also doubt whether he can keep up with terzic.
I don't know what so many people have with Terzic. They were almost champions but then ended up in 5th place, only slipping in because of the CL otherwise there would have been no CL this year. Incidentally, Dortmund's games last season were also a cramp at times. The CL simply overshadowed the poor performances.
Yes, can only agree - at least with Terzic they weren't where they currently are in the table.
Ergo, he was good, but not good enough to beat Bayern (Alonso did it with Leverkusen). But, you have to remember that Bayern, dominate the league and pretty much always play for the title. He wasn't the only one to blame for the "failure", but also people above him. But he should be given the recognition he deserves. Maybe not a top coach, but not a bad one either.
With the points they have now, they would have been in 6th place last year. 10 points behind 4th place.
As far as the league is concerned, Terzic led Dortmund into the Europa League. Special regulations then ensured that they were allowed to play CL after all. I think an EL place is still possible now. There are still 36 points and some direct duels. The play under Terzic was often not very respectable.
I think the EL is still possible. What you don't win in the CL you'll make up for in the summer. By the way, a CL win also entitles you to participate in the Champions League.
Patizi wrote on 18.02.2025 at 17:16: With the points you have now, you would have been 6th last year. 10 points behind 4th place.
As far as the league is concerned, Terzic just led Dortmund into the Europa League. Special regulations then ensured that they were allowed to play CL after all. I think an EL place is still possible now. There are still 36 points and some direct duels. The play under Terzic was often not very respectable.
I think the EL is still possible. What you don't win in the CL you'll make up for in the summer. By the way, a CL win also entitles you to participate in the Champions League.
Special rule yes, but Dortmund made it to the CL final and also contributed to Germany getting a 5th CL spot. So they more than deserved to qualify for the CL. You're also only looking at one season. In the two seasons he finished 2nd and 5th. There will certainly be several reasons for the deterioration, but if a club like BVB loses a striker like Bellingham and doesn't bring in a replacement, then that will also be one of the reasons for this deterioration.
Special rule yes, but Dortmund made it to the CL final and also contributed to Germany getting a 5th CL spot. So they more than deserved to qualify for the CL. You're also only looking at one season. In the two seasons he finished 2nd and 5th. There will certainly be several reasons for the deterioration, but if a club like BVB loses a striker like Bellingham and doesn't bring in a replacement, then that will also be one of the reasons for this deterioration.
I'm looking forward to the history books that say "almost German champions" and "almost Champions League winners". Terzic, the man who almost won everything. Of course, as I just mentioned, I can also look at the season with the 2nd place. It just looked very stupid at the end, that's what remains from this season. Bellingham is a midfielder and not a striker. Who says Sahin couldn't have finished 5th and btw Sahin had a chance to play in the CL final. He couldn't even finish a whole season. Whether personally realistic or not but the possibilities were there for Sahin. Vlt was Terzic better but the point with the player material remains of course. I remember last season. Malen and Brandt saved one or two games in the second half of the season. At the moment you don't have one or two who can save something. Dortmund's performance last season was sooo shit at times but one of them somehow managed to pull it off. Shitty game but the result was just right. In the end, results count but Dortmund were absolutely not respectable and they were luckier than they are at the moment.
Patizi wrote on 19.02.2025 at 12:51: By the way, don't get me wrong. I don't want to defend Sahin by any means, but Terzic is sometimes praised too highly.
Well, I think high praise is a bit exaggerated. You simply can't deny his results and the fact is that BVB finished 2nd and 5th with him and are currently 11th without him. In my opinion, Sahin has delivered worse results than he has.
Patizi wrote on 02/19/2025 12:46 PM:
Who actually says Sahin couldn't have finished 5th and btw Sahin also had a chance for the CL final. He couldn't even finish a whole season. Whether personally realistic or not but the possibilities were there for Sahin. Vlt was Terzic better but the point with the player material remains of course.
He could have, but whether he really could have is written in the stars. I think the departure is fine. It's a different story with FC Bayern and Nagelsmann: they really robbed the coach of the chance to prove himself, even though everything went well - league, CL and DFB Cup. With Sahin, almost nothing went right. Out in the 2nd round of the DFB Cup, the league wasn't going well either and the only result that was still ok was the CL. When BVB then also lost to bottom-placed Bologna, they saw the only thing they had left in danger and pulled the emergency brake. If you have nothing to report in almost all competitions, then you've simply squandered your chance. That's how things are going in the soccer business at the moment. All it takes is one not-so-good season and you're almost out. Exceptions prove the rule, but that's how it usually works. I also think that BVB simply think that they can consistently play up there or keep up with Bayern. They are not in a position to do that. They can't keep players like Lewandoski, Haaland, Bellingham etc. and with them you have a much better chance of winning titles.
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or many ex-GDR clubs are only now slowly coming back, with Rostock perhaps having the most consistency since 1990
In France, it's the same as soon as the drip of money falls away, even a traditional club falls very quickly, see Bordeaux.
Of course, what also plays a role are the string-pullers in the background. I say Bayern, Barca, Real, there are other forces at work in the background.
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The foundation members, fan scene, stadium, brand rights etc. and of course not least money, sponsors etc., which you also get because you have a name.
Of course you can lose that again, there's no question about it. But to organically rebuild something like that now, as was possible a few decades ago, is much more difficult or even impossible.
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You get it!
You don't have to like it, but always saying how stupid everyone is because they have sheikhs etc. doesn't help either. The only logical thing to do would be to distance yourself completely from paid soccer. That's not an option for me, if only because of sports betting. At the end of the day, most people just grumble but take out subscriptions to watch, run to the stadium, buy fan merchandise or bet on it. Time moves on and in this day and age, money rules soccer. And if you want to win titles or simply play at the top, you have to go with the flow. And even the oh-so-great traditional clubs are having their money blown out the back.
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I have big doubts that this will go well for a long time when I see how it ended in Munich and Wolfsburg.
My prediction: He will be an employee of Borussia Dortmund until 30.06.26 at the most.
.... I'd be happy to be proven wrong..
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He'll do better than sahin in the short and long term. I also doubt whether he can keep up with terzic.
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I completely agree with that! Modern soccer is almost impossible without big investors. History and traditions are important, but you can't stay at the top for long without finances.
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I don't know what so many people have with Terzic. They were almost champions but then ended up in 5th place, only slipping in because of the CL otherwise there would have been no CL this year. Incidentally, Dortmund's games last season were also a cramp at times. The CL simply overshadowed the poor performances.
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Ergo, he was good, but not good enough to beat Bayern (Alonso did it with Leverkusen). But, you have to remember that Bayern, dominate the league and pretty much always play for the title. He wasn't the only one to blame for the "failure", but also people above him. But he should be given the recognition he deserves. Maybe not a top coach, but not a bad one either.
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As far as the league is concerned, Terzic led Dortmund into the Europa League. Special regulations then ensured that they were allowed to play CL after all. I think an EL place is still possible now. There are still 36 points and some direct duels. The play under Terzic was often not very respectable.
I think the EL is still possible. What you don't win in the CL you'll make up for in the summer. By the way, a CL win also entitles you to participate in the Champions League.
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With Sahin, they weren't in a place in the table that would have qualified for Europe when he was sacked. Fact.
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Special rule yes, but Dortmund made it to the CL final and also contributed to Germany getting a 5th CL spot. So they more than deserved to qualify for the CL. You're also only looking at one season. In the two seasons he finished 2nd and 5th. There will certainly be several reasons for the deterioration, but if a club like BVB loses a striker like Bellingham and doesn't bring in a replacement, then that will also be one of the reasons for this deterioration.
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I'm looking forward to the history books that say "almost German champions" and "almost Champions League winners". Terzic, the man who almost won everything. Of course, as I just mentioned, I can also look at the season with the 2nd place. It just looked very stupid at the end, that's what remains from this season. Bellingham is a midfielder and not a striker. Who says Sahin couldn't have finished 5th and btw Sahin had a chance to play in the CL final. He couldn't even finish a whole season. Whether personally realistic or not but the possibilities were there for Sahin. Vlt was Terzic better but the point with the player material remains of course. I remember last season. Malen and Brandt saved one or two games in the second half of the season. At the moment you don't have one or two who can save something. Dortmund's performance last season was sooo shit at times but one of them somehow managed to pull it off. Shitty game but the result was just right. In the end, results count but Dortmund were absolutely not respectable and they were luckier than they are at the moment.
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Well, I think high praise is a bit exaggerated. You simply can't deny his results and the fact is that BVB finished 2nd and 5th with him and are currently 11th without him. In my opinion, Sahin has delivered worse results than he has.
He could have, but whether he really could have is written in the stars. I think the departure is fine. It's a different story with FC Bayern and Nagelsmann: they really robbed the coach of the chance to prove himself, even though everything went well - league, CL and DFB Cup. With Sahin, almost nothing went right. Out in the 2nd round of the DFB Cup, the league wasn't going well either and the only result that was still ok was the CL. When BVB then also lost to bottom-placed Bologna, they saw the only thing they had left in danger and pulled the emergency brake. If you have nothing to report in almost all competitions, then you've simply squandered your chance. That's how things are going in the soccer business at the moment. All it takes is one not-so-good season and you're almost out. Exceptions prove the rule, but that's how it usually works. I also think that BVB simply think that they can consistently play up there or keep up with Bayern. They are not in a position to do that. They can't keep players like Lewandoski, Haaland, Bellingham etc. and with them you have a much better chance of winning titles.
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