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News & Notices: GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators (Page 7)

Topic created on 02nd Sep. 2024 | Page: 7 of 9 | Answers: 129 | Views: 6,881
x****Y

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

7th Sep. 2024, at 07:00 pm CEST#91
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Julian wrote on 07.09.2024 at 11:04 am:
No, to also answer another member's question:
The decision was not made to save money, and certainly not to save taxes.
On the contrary, we will continue to strive to expand our GJ team in the future so that we can get more support outside the forum. However, we will retain the community forum moderators and are considering whether we should even involve other members in the future.

Involving forum moderators from the community is actually an idea we've had for years.
And to be honest, we have often been asked about it.
Other forums and platforms have been doing this for years.

The current community forum moderators don't have a mini-job with us.
They only receive a small thank you for their support every now and then.

But as a matter of principle, I simply don't want to make it public who we give what and how much to.
In my eyes, that's nobody's business.

Rarely have I laughed more at a post than at this one


1. We all know that after the German license came out and you had to make some changes, your revenue definitely declined. So "almost free" employees come in handy

2. If it's been your idea for so long, why are you only implementing it now? You weren't that convinced.

3. Members have suggested this idea again and again? Thought it was your idea? Funny, I never read this wish/improvement suggestion in the forum. I'm sure they all contacted you neatly via PN for the idea

4. Right, the members keep your company running, so why be transparent about them.

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Lionking
Top Member

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

7th Sep. 2024, at 07:58 pm CEST#92
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Liked this post: B****3, Avatar von bruffl bruffl, Avatar von Falke Falke, Avatar von Malganes Malganes
Why wasn't the topic discussed in a thread beforehand? Gathered opinions from the community, worked out the pros and cons instead of "quietly and secretly" naming the users?
A survey would also have been a good idea.
Sure, it's your baby here and you have to keep the place running, but it can't hurt to involve the community in changes or decisions as much as possible instead of just presenting them with a fait accompli.
Furthermore, I agree with Rehab, what is the point of disclosing the "small gifts", of remaining transparent? To prevent speculation?

I appreciate the users appointed as moderators and I don't begrudge them the extra money, that's not a question, I think almost the entire community sees it the same way, at least the regular users certainly do.
As I said, perhaps the concerns of some regular users could have been dispelled in advance, but in any case the existing concerns would have been taken into account.

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B****3

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

7th Sep. 2024, at 08:07 pm CEST#93
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frapi07 wrote on 07.09.2024 at 17:21:
What do you expect? You are attacking the forum mods and assuming, among other things, that they are influenced and will therefore no longer represent their opinion 1:1 or side with GJ in a dispute. You're implying something that they haven't done yet. Of course, Saphira then feels attacked and becomes a little "cheeky" or harsher in tone.

As I wrote to Falke: it's still too early to say anything like that. It's not a bad thing that you or Falke have pointed out this danger, but that you're trying to talk it down, even though there's currently nothing to criticize.

The 3 have been writing as usual (even if some are paying more attention to the rules, which is normal), none of them have acted snooty so far and none of them have abused their position.

And once again: if there is any abuse of power, you can complain to Julian. He will look into it and intervene if necessary.

I seriously wonder whether the criticism would have been as strong if you had also been selected.

Oh frapi, I didn't attack anyone!

I also didn't write that they are influenced by gamblejoe but are automatically influenced by their office!
And that gives saphira the right! All respect!

For you it is criticism, for me it is logical concern!
Furthermore, it would be no different in the free economy, I would like to see someone who would not be automatically influenced if a superior suggested that I pay attention and I said, sure boss, I'll do it but then stab him in the back next week!

In no time at all I am rid of the supervisor position, and not to forget the users have voluntarily agreed, so there is also a certain interest or it's just charity, I don't know!


And to your last paragraph, I would not have and would not accept this position at all as some would probably burst into tears in the forum as I'm not the "honey around the mouth type"!

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frapi07
Elite

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

7th Sep. 2024, at 08:29 pm CEST#94
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Blubbo33 wrote on 07.09.2024 at 20:07:

Oh frapi, I didn't attack anyone!

I also did not write that they are influenced by gamblejoe but are automatically influenced qua office !
And that gives saphira the right! All respect!

For you it is criticism, for me it is logical concern!
Furthermore, it would be no different in the free economy, I would like to see someone who would not be automatically influenced if a superior suggested that I pay attention and I said, sure boss, I'll do it but then stab him in the back next week!

In no time at all I am rid of the supervisor position, and not to forget the users have voluntarily agreed, so there is also a certain interest or it's just charity, I don't know!


And to your last paragraph, I would not have and would not accept this position at all as some would probably burst into tears in the forum as I am not the "buttering up type"!

You automatically assume that the three of them are only influenced by their new position. I haven't noticed that with anyone yet, so your assumption doesn't match the actual fact. I can't speak for the mods, but if I put myself in their shoes, I would feel a little offended. May well be me being too sensitive and reacting though. I am in real life too.

Saphira didn't break any rules with her answer and just as I always write that I think your posts are ok, I also think her post is ok because she didn't cross a certain line. I find it ironic, even funny, that you of all people write about a cheeky reply when you always reply so provocatively and cheekily. As I said, I don't mind your manner. Like most people here, I appreciate you for it, but I think it comes across as a double standard.

I don't think you understand that these are not real mods. They are normal users who just have 3 extra buttons, nothing more. They can't do anything except delete spam or intervene in escalations. That's all they can do. You can't compare this to an employer/employee relationship. Of course you're right in your example, but it's about a full-time job and not about a forum monitor who occasionally deletes a few posts.

The point of my last paragraph was not to know whether you would have accepted or not, but whether you would have posted your concerns in the same way if you had been selected and accepted.

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Stromberg
Legend

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

7th Sep. 2024, at 09:19 pm CEST#95
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I sometimes find it difficult myself, but when both sides have put forward the same arguments for the fifth time, you just have to agree to disagree.
And then someone has to live with the fact that they didn't have the last word.
It may be difficult in a discourse that others are following, because you have the impression that the other person has put forward their arguments last and they are therefore more likely to be taken as correct.
But it's actually an honor.

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R3hab
Elite

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

7th Sep. 2024, at 11:53 pm CEST#96
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Liked this post: Avatar von Dutch78 Dutch78

Dutch78 wrote on 07.09.2024 at 18:04: I'm a bit ambivalent about this, although I'm neutral about it. I've read through the pros and cons and for me both sides have good arguments.
On the one hand, the forum will be somewhat relieved and Julian in particular will benefit from the time and can invest it in more important things than editing the fifth off-topic, deleting the third spam and resisting the temptation to order that cheap Viagra from Asia.

From an entrepreneurial point of view, this even makes sense to me at this point in time, even if I can't understand the timing of the announcement.
Julian himself writes that this idea has been around for years, this test phase could have been started a long time ago, especially since Andre's withdrawal was already known.

Did you have any concerns about this yourself, or what prevented you from implementing it earlier?
I can only speak for myself and only from a professional perspective and in the past tense, but if people around me had a good idea and others were in favor of it, I would have been short-sighted or stupid not to implement it if it was realistic.

You write yourself that, if it is successful, it will offer great added value for the community, so it would have been worth trying much earlier if at least this possibility of added value existed.
Hence my question as to whether you have any doubts/residual doubts and, if not, why you waited so long.

I have no doubts that anything will change for me personally in my dealings with the new helpers.
I see them as normal members who also have a few buttons to keep the forum clean. No more and no less.
In general, you should always look at the awarding of titles in an online forum on the Internet with a winking eye.

Offline, life is important, but in the end this is just for entertainment and here it's like in real life, if I don't feel entertained, I switch over, or even better, switch off.

But I can also understand Falke and Blubbo's point of view and partly confirm it.
As for Blubbo in particular, I can say that I always enjoy reading his opinion, even if I don't always agree with it.
Sometimes I get the impression that you write "louder" in order to be heard, but you don't need to.
You make good arguments, but you like to hide them in a rant
The falcon is much more subtle there. His posts are more thought-provoking, or even rethinking, even if you both write the same content and I think that's a shame.

It is human nature that "titles", even if they are given in the virtual world, can influence people.

This can happen deliberately, so you can at least take countermeasures from the outset, both yourself and from outside

But it can also creep in unconsciously, even though you think you are not susceptible to it.
The reward system naturally also ensures a certain attachment to the "employer", whether intentional or unintentional, which can also influence decisions and could certainly make you somewhat biased. I am deliberately writing in the subjunctive, as ultimately this can only be determined by the person themselves and only time will tell.

Finally, thank you to everyone who has made it this far and please remember that we are only discussing three buttons for the trash.
Enjoy your weekend and now get out there.


Great post👌👍

Very nice to read, not like some of the other long texts here 😂

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roccoammo11
Expert

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

8th Sep. 2024, at 11:04 am CEST#97
1 Like

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roccoammo11

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Julian
Elite

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

8th Sep. 2024, at 12:25 pm CEST#98
5 Likes

R3hab wrote on 07.09.2024 at 17:59: Oha xD

Why should it be none of our business @Julian?
I think you can be transparent and make it public, what's the problem? I'm already curious
In the forums where I was a mod, I did it for the community, as with many who are NOT employed, a remuneration is a remuneration, and I think it's relevant to know what it is, because the 3 are also involved in the normal actions as normal, I think that's shit and unfair, because anyone can move posts here and delete offtopic, bissle unfair.

I've actually thought about your question for a while now, but to be honest I still don't think it's to anyone's advantage to communicate the whole thing publicly. I don't mean any offense, but as I said, you shouldn't forget that the "project" is still in its infancy and it's still a test phase. In other words, it is also important for us to properly assess the effort required by the moderators, which is why it is also important for us to first find out for ourselves what would be fair for the future. - When the test phase is over and we are considering hiring more moderators, we will be happy to publish a fixed salary so that this can also be taken into account when applying to become a moderator.
At the moment you can perhaps say that it's more a case of voluntary work, but of course there is a small expense allowance from our side for helping out, but as I said, it's not particularly high.
So it's not a sum that you as a member should be envious of, or for which it would really be worth disqualifying the new forum moderators from lotteries.

Dutch78 wrote on 07.09.2024 at 18:04:

From a business perspective, this actually makes sense to me, at this point in time, even if I can't understand the timing of the announcement.
Julian himself writes that this idea has been around for years, this test phase could have been started long ago, especially since Andre's withdrawal was already known.

Did you have any concerns about this yourself, or what prevented you from implementing it earlier?
I can only speak for myself and only from a professional perspective and in the past tense, but if people around me had a good idea and others were in favor of it, I would have been short-sighted or stupid not to implement it if it was realistic.

You write yourself that if it is successful, it will offer great added value for the community, so it would have been worth trying much earlier if at least this possibility of added value existed.

Thank you for your contribution
Yes, that's certainly a valid question, although I should perhaps mention that we first touched on this idea internally when we still had 3-4 more moderators.
At that time, there was honestly no great need to implement the idea directly or to create a draft for it, as we really did cover every day and every hour.
So it was more of a mind game at the time because we didn't know whether it was really necessary in the current situation.

I can perhaps respond to x00NY's post right away, because it's relatively obvious, but yes, there were actually some internal concerns about this topic, e.g. to what extent we would let potential forum moderators into the system, to what extent we would want to make use of help (whether just the forum or more). And then, as far as I remember, came the biggest problem, namely who we would consider.
And to be honest, the discussion was mostly over by then. We were very worried that there might be disputes in the forum or that, for example, members with whom we had a lot of contact but who we might not directly consider for the position might be a bit disappointed.

In addition, the climate back then was perhaps a little different than it is today, so it was also difficult to assess the Risk that something like this could entail, I mean, it would be naive not to at least think that a potential forum moderator could then get up to mischief with the rights. We even employed someone ourselves once, but it happened anyway.

So yes, even though the answer may not seem appealing, there were definitely concerns about it, which is why we kept pushing the idea back.

With the current events, I was actually responsible myself for starting the test phase with the moderators, so it wasn't an idea from the "management" but actually from me. It was clear to us that we would have to bring someone new on board again after Andre's departure, who we would then work back in bit by bit, and my thought was that we should simply give the idea or the consideration that we have had in the back of our minds for years a chance now, according to the motto: "If not now, then when".
So if the whole "project" goes wrong here, I will gladly take responsibility for it on my own head.

As I said, I can't explain why we chose exactly this point in time, it just felt right for me at the time. To be honest, after all this time I suddenly had no more concerns and so I sat down with my colleagues and we discussed everything possible and then implemented and prepared the technical aspects accordingly.


x00NY wrote on 07.09.2024 at 19:00:
Rarely had to laugh more at a post than this one

1. We all know that after the German license came out and you had to change a lot, your revenues have definitely been declining. So "almost free" employees come in handy

3. Members kept suggesting this idea? Thought it was your idea? Funny, I never read this wish/improvement suggestion in the forum either. I'm sure they all contacted you neatly via PN for the idea

4. Right, the members keep your company running, so why be transparent with them?

That's right, our revenue has fallen since the regulation, that's no secret and we communicated that publicly at the time. That is correct.
But that's no reason for us to save on personnel costs; in the end, for example, it would help me a lot more if we had an additional employee who could also help outside the forum. As I said, you have to remember that the forum is only part of the job, there are many more things to do and where we would need help.
I mentioned it yesterday, but we will continue to look for someone to work with us full time.

Lionking wrote on 07.09.2024 at 19:58: Why wasn't this topic discussed in a thread beforehand? Gathered opinions from the community, worked out the pros and cons instead of "quietly and secretly" naming the users?
A survey would also have been a good idea.
Sure, it's your baby here and you have to keep the place running, but it can't hurt to involve the community in changes or decisions as much as possible instead of just presenting them with a fait accompli.
Furthermore, I agree with Rehab, what is the point of disclosing the "small gifts", of remaining transparent? To prevent speculation?

I appreciate the users who have been appointed as moderators and I don't begrudge them the extra money, that's not a question, I think almost the entire community sees it the same way, at least the regular users certainly do.
As I said, perhaps the concerns of some regular users could have been dispelled in advance, but in any case the existing concerns should have been taken into account.

I can actually understand the point of criticism very well and, with hindsight, I even agree with it.
Perhaps it would have been better and more transparent under the given circumstances to first inform the community about the idea or the draft implementation before implementing it directly.
After all, the situation or the starting point is different than if only a technical innovation is announced.


Finally, I would like to point out that I might have expected the topic to raise a few questions, but I never expected so many concerns to arise on this subject.
I therefore respect every criticism and every point of reference on this topic, but I would like to call for people to continue to strive together to discuss the topic respectfully.
I am aware that I also answered some of the questions yesterday in a somewhat "direct" or annoyed manner, as it also made me a little sick to my stomach to have to read so many accusations and perhaps also some unjustified insinuations.

Even though the start of this project may seem to be showing some turbulence due to the general mood here in the thread, I would still like to ask you to at least give the whole test phase a chance.
As I said, some of the concerns are certainly understandable, but I think it's just too early to really judge it.
Give the whole thing some time.
For my part, I can only say that I am very happy and grateful that the new forum moderators have promised me their help and I am very excited to see how this will develop in the future.




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B****3

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

8th Sep. 2024, at 01:06 pm CEST#99
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"I therefore respect every criticism and every point of reference on this topic, but I would like to call on everyone to continue to strive to discuss the topic respectfully.

I am aware that I myself also answered some of the questions yesterday in a somewhat "direct" or annoyed manner, as it also made me a little sick to my stomach to have to read so many accusations and perhaps also some unjustified insinuations."

Sorry Julian, but that sounds to me like mockery and derision for all those who made critical comments yesterday!
Because you don't accept every criticism and contradict yourself by once again accusing users of unjustified insinuations!

That's why I can't gain anything from your statement and I can't really derive any new insights from it either.

But before the "brawl" starts again, I'll save myself any further comments.

As I already wrote, time will tell what was or will be triggered by this !

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Julian
Elite

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

8th Sep. 2024, at 01:17 pm CEST#100
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Blubbo33 wrote on 08.09.2024 at 13:06: "I therefore respect every criticism and every clue on this topic, but I would like to call for people to continue to strive together to discuss the topic respectfully.

I am aware that I myself also answered some questions yesterday in a somewhat "direct" or annoyed manner, as it also made me a little sick to my stomach to have to read so many accusations and perhaps also partly unjustified insinuations."

Sorry Julian, but that sounds to me like mockery and derision for all those who made critical comments yesterday!
Because you don't accept every criticism and contradict yourself by once again accusing users of unjustified insinuations!

That's why I can't gain anything from your statement and I can't really derive any new insights from it either.

But before the "brawl" starts again, I'll save myself any further comments.

As I already wrote, time will tell what was or will be triggered by this !

To be honest, I can't quite understand that.
I tried my best yesterday to respond to some of your points or arguments.
That's all I can do to show you that I take your criticism seriously and respect it.
But unfortunately you didn't really respond to the arguments against you.
If you have any further unanswered questions, please feel free to ask them.

As I said Blubbo, I don't really feel like starting another discussion here, it's not really in my interest to argue with you.
So tell me calmly and objectively what else interests you.

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B****3

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

8th Sep. 2024, at 01:54 pm CEST#101
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Then let's ensure maximum transparency!

Then let the 4 "chosen ones" explain to themselves why and why they have accepted this job!

So everyone can make up their own minds and see if they can do justice to their cause in the future and believe their words for all the unbelievers in this forum!



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Patizi
Elite

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

8th Sep. 2024, at 04:11 pm CEST#102
4 Likes
I don't think everyone here needs to know certain things. GJ is not obliged to disclose everything. We are simple users, no matter how long we have been here.

If someone wants to know something more detailed, they can write to the relevant people and simply ask. If you don't get an answer, then you have to accept it.

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roccoammo11
Expert

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

8th Sep. 2024, at 07:31 pm CEST#103
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Blubbo33 wrote on 08.09.2024 at 13:54: Then let's ensure maximum transparency!

Then let the 4 "chosen ones" explain to themselves why and why they accepted this job!

So everyone can make up their own minds and see if they can do justice to their cause in the future and believe their words for all the unbelievers in this forum!




old these are just regular users who like to support their favorite forum..they have helped before when they could..none of them will have asked for compensation for this and I have not noticed any change in these people so far..Julian has mentioned that it is a test phase..still think the idea is great & I am very sure the people can do it without changing in any way!!! they should be able to continue to participate in all actions otherwise it would almost be a punishment to co-moderate the forum...


always interesting how the smallest changes lead to insane discussions here..although Julian has explained everything so well...

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x****Y

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

8th Sep. 2024, at 07:33 pm CEST#104
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roccoammo11 wrote on 08.09.2024 at 19:31:

alter these are just regular users who like to support their favorite forum..they have helped before when they could..none of them will have asked for any compensation for it and I have not noticed any change in these people so far..Julian mentioned that it is a test phase..still think the idea is great & I am very sure the people can do it without changing in any way!!! they should still be able to participate in all actions otherwise it would almost be a punishment to co-moderate the forum...


it's always interesting how the smallest changes lead to insane discussions here...although Julian has explained everything so well...

Well, if Julian has explained everything so beautifully, we are of course not allowed to give our opinion. Sorry Julian

Your ideas are of course always the best, and sometimes we are too stupid to recognize this genius in the ideas

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Julian
Elite

GambleJoe: Beta phase: Community forum moderators

8th Sep. 2024, at 07:58 pm CEST#105
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roccoammo11 wrote on 08.09.2024 at 19:31:

alter these are just regular users who like to support their favorite forum..they have helped before when they could..none of them will have asked for any compensation for it and I have not noticed any change in these people so far..Julian mentioned that it is a test phase..still think the idea is great & I am very sure the people can do it without changing in any way!!! they should still be able to participate in all actions otherwise it would almost be a punishment to co-moderate the forum...


it's always interesting how the smallest changes lead to insane discussions here...although Julian has explained everything so well...

Well, when I read through x00NY's post above, I unfortunately get the feeling that some members just hate GambleJoe or maybe me personally and maybe they don't really care about the topic at hand.
No matter how much time you invest in responding to questions or criticism, you're probably always just looking for a reason to get one over on someone.

Unfortunately, it's pretty sad when you think about it.

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