Community surveys: Are the German-licensed stores satisfied with the business and the legal situation in Germany? (Page 2)

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StarGames_Official wrote on 28.05.2024 at 10:40 am: Our opinion: if players are dissatisfied, we are dissatisfied too. Firstly, because all player dissatisfaction reaches us as a provider. Very few of them write to GGL directly, if at all. Most write to us via Live Chat, here in the forum or via various review sites with negative comments about the chances of winning. Of course, this was also the case with Online Casinos before 2020 with 95% RTP, but of course increasingly so since the switch to the new wagering tax.

So even if you think that online casinos "make enough money anyway", they are most likely not satisfied with the legal situation simply because of the many dissatisfied customers.

Secondly: we have explained it several times in this forum, but players do not necessarily know how many costs are involved with such a licensed casino.

• Tax and license fee.


• Bank guarantee in the millions.


• LUGAS and OASIS costs.


• Safe server costs.


• Additional technical work with such integrations - which also costs a lot.


• And then we haven't even talked about the bonus costs, game providers, payment methods and marketing. Or about salaries and office costs, etc.

We don't want to say that you should feel bad for us. Not at all. We're just telling you what the reality is. Since 50% of the income alone goes to the tax authorities as tax, you can easily estimate how much is left over after all the above costs.

Why offer it anyway? Because we hope that the regulations will improve for everyone and that this market will look better for players and providers in the future.

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mtorero wrote on May 28, 2024 at 4:21 pm:

What was ever going to change for the better please?

Those responsible in the Ministry of Finance will certainly be happy about the 264.4 million - earned in their sleep - but at the same time are already thinking about increasing the tax. It's so simple.

The casinos will continue to operate as if nothing is wrong because the entire offer is aimed at the less educated lower class, who never think about payout ratios or anything else anyway. It doesn't matter whether the Rtp is 90 or 70%, the player has no chance of having any fun at <94% anyway.
But hope is the faith of the foolish and the operators know that. This hope can of course be increased through good marketing, 'training' etc.
The citizen money recipient who has all day to watch BingBong training courses will at some point be tempted to gamble away the last of his children's lunch money and the ruble will keep on rolling. However, those responsible should not have a conscience.

By the way, dear StarGames management team: Things would be better if your lobbyists didn't force the authorities to prosecute the few players who don't want to play in Germany out of self-defense!
The fact that you are actively involved in the forum and are open to criticism is of course great, but I absolutely cannot buy your will to improve. Your offer is one of the worst on the already catastrophic German market. Two small but very fine points in comparison e.g. with the best offer Löwenplay in my opinion.
-100% Deposit bonus:
StarGames - Max Cashout 300€ after 30 x turnover (absolute no go)
Löwenplay - no max cashout (as should normally be the case)
-Rtp sometimes so much higher that you get 3-4 times longer playing time. (Before another discussion about Rtp calculation arises here, just try a Pragmatic game at Lp with 95.x% compared to StarGames 88.x%. The difference is so huge that 1000 spins are easily enough to determine this extremely different gameplay without any fancy calculations)
Just two points that make Lp's offer worlds better than yours.
So first make a little effort and try to offer the best possible on the German market, then your wishes for improvement could also be taken seriously.
After all, you have a multi-billion company behind you...

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Toastbrot wrote on 28.05.2024 at 16:39:
Ask me if StarGames is as dissatisfied as we players are why don't you join forces with other licensees or at least take initiative here? Don't you pay a Bazen of money for this wonderful German license? Aren't you the ones who feed the state with taxes? And you want to tell us that you can't achieve anything together if you really mean it? If a few players get upset, the authorities are certainly less itchy because enough customers have to continue to submit to this "crap of specifications and restrictions" because they have no other choice if they don't want to make themselves liable to prosecution... But if the licensees would stand up and make a difference to those who feed the state in the first place, they might get off their asses and make improvements... But I'd bet my ass that solidarity with the player won't go that far 😉

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Toastbrot wrote on 28.05.2024 at 16:39:
But you forgot to mention an important detail in your comparison... As far as I know, the Löwenplay 100% bonus has the clause - Deposit amount and bonus amount x75 turnover yes has no max cashout ... I don't know if I would find that better now... But as you say, the higher RTP due to the tax you get deducted is more attractive.


If StarGames is just as dissatisfied as we players are, why don't you join forces with other licensees or at least take the initiative here? Don't you guys pay a fortune for this wonderful German license? Aren't you the ones who feed the state with taxes? And you want to tell us that you can't achieve anything together if you really mean it? If a few players get upset, the authorities are certainly less itchy because enough customers have to continue to submit to this "crap of specifications and restrictions" because they have no other choice if they don't want to make themselves liable to prosecution... But if the licensees would stand up and make a difference to those who feed the state in the first place, they might get off their butts and make some improvements... But I'd bet my bottom that solidarity with the player doesn't go that far after all 😉

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StarGames_Official wrote on 29.05.2024 09:41:

Already exists and is being done. You can find the members of the German Online Casino Association here. We are also part of it.

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mtorero wrote on 29.05.2024 at 13:52:

Yes you are right turnover conditions are higher with 35 x Deposit + bonus. But I think a max cashout with a Deposit bonus is absolutely wrong. Imagine you deposit 50€ + 50€ bonus and get a nice win, e.g. 5 x explorers in the free spins on 1 Eur bet, so 5000€

What would you prefer?
5000€ credit but still need 3500€ turnover with good Rtp slots and without max cashout.
Or:
5000€ credit, but 1500€ turnover still necessary and 300€ max cashout?

For me, the question doesn't even arise if a casino limits payouts, whether with or without a bonus. Every player has the dream of landing a big hit and if I know from the outset that I can only pay out €300, there is no excitement. The whole thrill of slots, in contrast to Table games, is that there is the possibility of winning x-hundreds or x-thousands of a bet and that sometimes happens.

Update: As luck would have it, I've just seen that Loewenplay has now also set a payout limit of €300 for bonus claims lol 😅
Unfortunately, my pessimistic predictions are coming true. German casinos will not follow the good but the best will be forced to go to the equally bad level of the others.
I wonder when the tax per spin will hit 10%. I can well imagine it happening before the end of 2025 😂

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Toastbrot wrote on 28.05.2024 at 16:39:
But you forgot to mention an important detail in your comparison... As far as I know, the Löwenplay 100% bonus has the clause - Deposit amount and bonus amount x75 turnover yes has no max cashout ... I don't know if I would find that better now... But as you say, the higher RTP due to the tax you get deducted is more attractive.


If StarGames is just as dissatisfied as we players are, why don't you join forces with other licensees or at least take the initiative here? Don't you guys pay a fortune for this wonderful German license? Aren't you the ones who feed the state with taxes? And you want to tell us that you can't achieve anything together if you really mean it? If a few players get upset, the authorities are certainly less itchy because enough customers have to continue to submit to this "crap of specifications and restrictions" because they have no other choice if they don't want to make themselves liable to prosecution... But if the licensees would stand up and make a difference to those who feed the state in the first place, they might get off their butts and make some improvements... But I'd bet my bottom that solidarity with the player doesn't go that far after all 😉

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mtorero wrote on 29.05.2024 at 13:52:

Yes you are right turnover conditions are higher with 35 x Deposit + bonus. But I think a max cashout with a Deposit bonus is absolutely wrong. Imagine you deposit 50€ + 50€ bonus and get a nice win, e.g. 5 x explorers in the free spins on 1 Eur bet, so 5000€

What would you prefer?
5000€ credit but still need 3500€ turnover with good Rtp slots and without max cashout.
Or:
5000€ credit, but 1500€ turnover still necessary and 300€ max cashout?

For me, the question doesn't even arise if a casino limits payouts, whether with or without a bonus. Every player has the dream of landing a big hit and if I know from the outset that I can only pay out €300, there is no excitement. The whole thrill of slots, in contrast to Table games, is that there is the possibility of winning x-hundreds or x-thousands of a bet and that sometimes happens.

Update: As luck would have it, I've just seen that Loewenplay has now also set a payout limit of €300 for bonus claims lol 😅
Unfortunately, my pessimistic predictions are coming true. German casinos will not follow the good but the best will be forced to go to the equally bad level of the others.
I wonder when the tax per spin will hit 10%. I can well imagine it happening before the end of 2025 😂

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Toastbrot wrote on 29.05.2024 at 13:59:

Strong and what have you achieved so far for the gaming community? I read your criticism of the regulations relating to the 5 second rule, slow approval of games and limits back then. Not a word about the nonsensical way of taxing per spin, not a word about the resulting catastrophic Rtp... The only thing that has happened so far is that the Deposit limit of 1000 euros per month has already been successfully watered down... Whether this serves the players or rather the casinos remains to be seen... Since this is the only change so far that was suddenly possible without any great effort, I doubt that this was about the interests of the players. Rather, Player protection has been reduced to absurdity... I have not yet heard any open criticism of the politicians with regard to taxation and the resulting bottomless rtp, as they are the ones who make the laws... The GGL is only implementing them...

I think you are deliberately overlooking the fact that the migration of players is not primarily due to the Quängel rules such as the 5-second rule, but to the massively worse Rtp values that we are being presented with here, which are getting worse every month.

What's the point if the player can ultimately perform his spins every second and without limits if we are at Rtp lows of 75% in a year if things continue like this...

At some point, the majority of players will no longer give in to the constant lowering and then the whole structure will collapse.

Stupid people get up every day, but at some point even the last one will realize that it doesn't make sense if fundamental changes aren't made in the direction of attractiveness and a fair offer for both players and providers...

This is not fundamentally against you StarGames, I just want to make that clear... You are simply the only ones who are really taking a stand here, but it affects the entire market...

• Online gambling: Germany takes a lonely and risky special approach to taxation - missed opportunity for a strong legal market


• "More than every second offer will be illegal!"


• Study: Half of gaming time in the illegal area

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StarGames_Official wrote on 29.05.2024 at 17:26:
Here are just 3 articles and press releases from the German Online Casino Association about the excessive taxation and the related effects (black market, lack of Player protection and lack of tax for the state). So to say that the association is not campaigning against taxation and RTP is not true. Quite the opposite.

• Online gambling: Germany takes a lonely and risky special approach to taxation - missed opportunity for a strong legal market


• "More than every second offer will be illegal!"


• Study: Half of gaming time in the illegal area

Of course, it's not just press releases - the issues are of course also discussed with the GGL and decision-makers. But every small step or decision unfortunately takes far too long.

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