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Other games of chance: Online Broking (Shares) (Page 2)

Topic created on 21st Mar. 2018 | Page: 2 of 4 | Answers: 32 | Views: 11,131
Slothot
Amateur

Online Broking (Shares)

22nd Mar. 2018, at 09:53 pm CET#11
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Well. That's why etfs. No fund manager cares and you invest passively.
Your cfds, best with multiple leverage are pure gambling. Certainly right here in the forum but nothing for small investors. Since you certainly belong to the 90 percent with loss...

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Slothot
Amateur

Online Broking (Shares)

22nd Mar. 2018, at 09:55 pm CET#12
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One more thing. Do you think you can beat the market just by reading charts? Do lemon folders fold lemons? Total bullshit

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s****y

Online Broking (Shares)

22nd Mar. 2018, at 10:11 pm CET#13
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Slothot wrote on 03/22/2018 at 9:55 pm: Something else. Do you think just reading charts beats the market? Folding lemons folding lemons? Total bullshit

Fundamentals are totally overrated; the chart tells you exactly where supply/demand is.

Retail investors buy funds, pay fees etc; fund companies earn on, naaaa on fees and commissions; don't you think they don't care where the prices are, they always get their dough, naaaa - exactly from the retail investor.

If you don't want Cfd's, buy real shares - but do it yourself and don't throw your money into the fund companies.

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RiverSong
Legend

Online Broking (Shares)

22nd Mar. 2018, at 10:17 pm CET#14
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Slothot wrote on 03/22/2018 at 9:55 pm: folding lemon butterfly lemons?

what kind of things some come up with

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Slothot
Amateur

Online Broking (Shares)

23rd Mar. 2018, at 09:50 am CET#15
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Speedy wrote on 03/22/2018 at 10:11 pm
Slothot wrote on 03/22/2018 at 9:55 pm: Something else. Do you think just reading charts beats the market? Folding lemons folding lemons? Total bullshit

Fundamentals are totally overrated; the chart tells you exactly where supply/demand is.

Small investors buy funds, pay fees etc; fund companies earn from, naaaaa on fees and commissions; don't you think they don't care where the prices are, they always get their dough, naaaa - exactly from the small investor.

If you don't want Cfd's, buy real shares - but do it yourself and don't throw your money into the fund companies.

I have marked the corresponding area where you are wrong again. I'll comment again now and then let it go.
ETF 's do not have active fund management. The TER (Total Expense Ratio) varies between 0.09 - 0.6 percent per year. Many online brokers offer free savings plans (so no 1.5% fee on your savings rate) on dozens of ETFs. You only have to look for 2 hours to get really good offers. Furthermore, one-time payments on these promotional ETFs are also free of charge.
You forget to mention that when buying shares also fees are due. A basic fee and usually another 0.25 percent of the order volume. In addition, there are also the transaction costs when selling.

The topic of derivative products is highly complex and suitable for almost no private investor. The people who can regularly book a plus with it are probably under 5%.
If you want to buy real shares you should pay attention to diversification (an ETF is already diversified) and not order a share package because of the costs below 1k Euro. In addition, you should be up to date, read balance sheets and as said very broadly positioned if you do not want to gamble.

All this saves you ETF 's.
Here is a website where interested readers can inform themselves:

www.justetf.com

and dozens more.
Greetings


Edit: When choosing an ETF, the investment horizon is most important. The concept behind an ETF is buy and hold. This means buying more shares even in crash phases (which are inevitable).
We are talking about a horizon between 8 and 15, who wants also 20 years.
If you had started investing in the MSCI World 10 years ago, you would have made an average return of 7 percent every year. There are hardly any actively managed funds or individual investments that come close...

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gagapapamama
Expert

Online Broking (Shares)

23rd Mar. 2018, at 10:30 am CET#16
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All a bit too high for us I put my money on the sandbank.

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Tropper
Top Member

Online Broking (Shares)

23rd Mar. 2018, at 11:06 am CET#17
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Speedy wrote on 03/22/2018 at 10:11 pm
Slothot wrote on 03/22/2018 at 9:55 pm: Something else. Do you think just reading charts beats the market? Folding lemons folding lemons? Total bullshit

Fundamentals are totally overrated; the chart tells you exactly where supply/demand is.

Retail investors buy funds, pay fees etc; fund companies earn on, naaaa on fees and commissions; don't you think they don't care where the prices are, they always get their dough, naaaa - exactly from the retail investor.

If you do not want Cfd`s, buy real shares - but do it yourself and do not throw your money to the fund companies in the revenge


Exactly that was my mistake, I wanted "actually" every month in ETF 's purely pay but I saw that all online brokers want money for transactions (order, and for the sale of the shares) and if I bsp every month of 50 € already alone 5 € order fees must pay, I must bring it back with the return.
Annually, it would be from 1200€ that I have paid in, but 120€ of fees. Return would have to be over 12% (if I have now calculated correctly). Only vllt by a long-term investment with this strategy it can be avoided that the fees of my return eat everything and I vllt in 10 years again something back get. The problem is, if I reinvest somewhere else or buy shares (extreme example) https://www.coingecko.com/de (cryptocurrencies), these are extrems volatile. The only thing that would be vllt on the safe side is gold nuggets (either buy stock or real gold), because gold is still worth a lot in 2000 years. And they rise from the prices (after all, you get annually the inflation back so.

Back briefly on the subject of volatile, I can play the same Book of Dead...:D only that a share after 10 minutes is not at 0 € with 50 € deposit.

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Tropper
Top Member

Online Broking (Shares)

23rd Mar. 2018, at 11:15 am CET#18
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gagapapamama wrote on 03/23/2018 at 10:30 am: Everything a little too high for us I put my money on the sandbar.

Diversification just mean that you don't only reinvest in BASF for example (buy shares) but in basf, lufthansa, Deutsche bahn, so in many other companies that have ne shares (AG) and ETF is a share with the 30 biggest companies in Germany and if you invest money there, you invest in 30 companies right away purely so you spread it. I am also not a guru but that's why I opened this topic because I want to learn and I think it's a very interesting topic

In the sandbank you pay in some banks something on it (negative interest), which is actually a mess, then comes inflation and my Gambling addiction (which I want to get away) there will of 100€ by negative interest (let's say 0.5%) and inflation (1.4%?) vllt still at the end of the year 98 € remain. Where do the 2€ go? The bank, which go with my money on the stock market and gamble it away and the miserable inflation which is regulated by the consumer goods (are always more expensive).

It only annoys me if the money which one earns hard/works and whatever simply in the nothing verpulvert. Rich people (really rich here in Germany) go to the whorehouse, throw it unnecessarily out for a car which costs 100.000€ times etc etc.. We little men have to accept with father state their "whims" it and take it as it is. (simply awesome said)

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Slothot
Amateur

Online Broking (Shares)

23rd Mar. 2018, at 11:16 am CET#19
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I have held physical gold for years as an emergency nail and inflation protection. But has lost since the peak 2012 about 20 percent. But I see it like you, otherwise I would not have it.

You have a thought error in the etf example. There are no order costs. Only selling costs. You pay on your savings rate 1.5 percent fee. Nothing else. In addition, the management costs of the fund between 0.1 and 0.6 percent. Depending on the provider. So you need about 1.8 percent annual return on average for break even.
As already mentioned, there are dozens of free savings plans for etfs, so without the 1.5 percent fees. Ergo you need on average with such an etf about 0.5 percent return p.a. for breaks even. Understandable?

Again: there are no order fees for etfs. At least not at comdirect or consorsbank. Only the 1.5 percent fee for your savings rate and even that can be avoided with Aktion etfs. Consors currently offers some from lyxor and deutsche Bank.

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s****y

Online Broking (Shares)

23rd Mar. 2018, at 12:57 pm CET#20
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slothot: jap ok, I had more the costs of funds in mind; play with etf`s indeed no role.

Basically, I am but the opinion everyone should actively manage its portfolio itself; As you already write - DD sit out, or re-buy.
Not my thing, I shorte then rather and switche to relavante reversal patterns; This is of course not with etf `s; so remain only shares and or indices as Cfd and or futures.

Speedy

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