Online Casinos in general: Sue Platincasino? (Page 16)

frapi07 wrote on 03.04.2023 at 20:05:

Everyone is allowed to have their opinion. I do not dictate anyone to think or act exactly like me. It is wrong for me or anyone else to dictate what should be right or wrong. Everyone should be able to decide for themselves.

I have never heard that a tobacco company in Germany had to pay compensation to cancer patients. Why should a casino do it then? Most people play casino for one reason only: to make money. That is the reason why I hold the opinion that refunds are morally wrong. Just as the casinos are greedy, so are the players.

I would sign it if the people who went with profit had to pay the money back to the casinos as well. Then it would be fair. That the contract is void, I understand. But I see it as morally reprehensible if only one of the parties has to pay back the money.

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Falcon wrote on 03.04.2023 at 21:20:

Most people play in a casino only because they are addicted. 99% of long term players lose, that's a fact. So to make money, nobody plays there, even if it is of course part of the vicious circle that you want to win.


Why would it even be fair in any way for a player to pay money back to a casino when the casino is illegally offering their gaming program? The casinos have a responsibility to comply with the law.

And just by the way, the casinos could actually quite possibly try this and maybe even get it right. But for that they would have to sue. So how does that look exactly in your mind? Player A sues the casino and gets his money back and the judge decides that now Player B has to give back his win, although he has nothing to do with the case? Do you then make a public announcement that all winners should come forward? Where there is no plaintiff, there is no judge. It is as simple as that.

And yes, of course everyone can and should have their opinion. Just like I have my opinion that I find it absurd to talk about morals in connection with casinos. And it also annoys me how people always pick on players who try to claim their money legally and in accordance with the law. They act as if they were bad people trying to rob a grandma.

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gamble1 wrote on 03.04.2023 at 22:10 Clock:
I think regardless of what a company offers as long as people and families are attached to it, you can very well talk about morality because if all players would get their money back would be the casino usually broke and then even if the store has only 10 employees are still 10 whole families restricted (now not related to the bosses but the small staff)

So why should the players who voluntarily gamble there be placed higher than someone who just does his job there ? The illegality can not be an argument because the legislator admits even in such cases a partial guilt because, as is known, the pure ignorance goes hand in hand with a you could have informed yourself

In addition, most casinos run under a .com domain and the companies are usually located abroad, so are German customers targeted? Or is it not much more likely that the German customers just get lost on these foreign sites?

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gamble1 wrote on 03.04.2023 at 22:10 Clock:
I think regardless of what a company offers as long as people and families are attached to it, you can very well talk about morality because if all players would get their money back would be the casino usually broke and then even if the store has only 10 employees are still 10 whole families restricted (now not related to the bosses but the small staff)

So why should the players who voluntarily gamble there be placed higher than someone who just does his job there ? The illegality can not be an argument because the legislator admits even in such cases a partial guilt because, as is known, the pure ignorance goes hand in hand with a you could have informed yourself

In addition, most casinos run under a .com domain and the companies are usually located abroad, so are German customers targeted? Or is it not much more likely that the German customers just get lost on these foreign sites?

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Falcon wrote on 03.04.2023 at 21:20:

Most people play in a casino only because they are addicted. 99% of long term players lose, that's a fact. So to make money, nobody plays there, even if it is of course part of the vicious circle that you want to win.

Falcon wrote on 03.04.2023 at 21:20:

Why would it even be fair in any way for a player to pay money back to a casino if the casino is illegally offering their gaming program? The casinos have a responsibility to comply with the law.

Falcon wrote on 03.04.2023 at 21:20:


And just as an aside, the casinos could actually quite possibly try this and maybe even get it right. But they would have to sue to do so. So how exactly would that look in your mind? Player A sues the casino and gets his money back and the judge decides that now Player B has to give back his win, although he has nothing to do with the case? Do you then make a public announcement that all winners should come forward? Where there is no plaintiff, there is no judge. It is as simple as that.

Falke wrote on 03.04.2023 at 21:20:


And yes, of course everyone can and should have his opinion. Just like I have my opinion that I find it absurd to talk about morality in connection with casinos. And it also annoys me how people always pick on players who try to claim their money legally and in accordance with the law. They act as if they were bad people trying to rob a granny.

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frapi07 wrote on 03.04.2023 at 23:46:

1. Most people smoke and drink because they are addicted. Nevertheless, I have not yet seen a company in Germany that was ordered by a court to pay damages/restitution and had to pay damages to the families.



2. As already mentioned in the previous post, I personally do not condemn it if someone offers illegal gambling . Illegality and the resulting conflicts are easily eliminated. If the state would not want to "regulate"(=co-operate) anything there, then one would have none of these problems. It is absurd that I have to register to an online casino in Malta or Curacao just to be allowed to play Roulette . I see it as questionable that you are only allowed to play Roulette and blackjack in casinos.


3. Now a question: I sent you the article from Nordbayern, in which the raid in Middle Franconia was reported. Why don't the players who played there illegally get their money? Actually, according to you, at least refunds would have to be made. However, I hardly believe that this would happen at all.

The roulette/blackjack thing is just an example. I don't know the locations, where they have found. But I can imagine that the devices were simply not connected to the network and thus had no restrictions.

4. I believe a casino has a database where every player is listed. I'm sure they can even see what your overall balance is. That would at least explain why they sometimes don't give out bonuses at Platin. So would be no problem to contact the people. I mean, there are certainly ways. You only have to observe how quickly a bailiff is there if the GEZ fee is not paid

5. I am more bothered by the fact that so-called "adults" first speculate with money and then take legal action if they lose. I have nothing against it if a player sues a casino because the casino does not pay out a win. However, I find it very hypocritical when you deliberately put money on the line in the hope of winning more and then cry around. I would like to deprive such people of their legal capacity.

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Falcon wrote 04.04.2023 at 00:36:

1. Right. It's because of the laws. In the USA there were such lawsuits in the past and they went through. And in Germany and especially in Austria there are just gambling laws by which you can reclaim your money. That's all I'm saying. It's the casinos' own fault if they still accept players from these countries.

Falke wrote on 04.04.2023 at 00:36:


2. I'm actually with you on this one. I am very much in favor of a free market and as little regulation as possible. But, back to my main point, the legal situation is just the way it is and there is nothing but absolutely nothing reprehensible about suing for your gambling losses if that is legally possible.
The casinos even plan this into their balance sheets. They then know that about 10% or 20% (a rough estimate) will demand their money back. This does not cause any damage, because the money is simply paid back and the remaining 80% to 90% are still a win. Criminally nothing can happen to the casinos. Or rather could. With the new German gambling law, they can also collect penalties.

Falcon wrote on 04.04.2023 at 00:36:

3. To get the money back, you have to be able to prove flawlessly how much you gambled. In Austria, for example, Novomatic has often had to pay off players because Player protection was not respected. All credit card withdrawals were refunded. However, gambled cash was not refunded because it was not verifiable. Furthermore, the legal situation in Germany is still a little different.

Falke wrote on 04.04.2023 at 00:36:

4. Only if the casinos belong to the same network. But a casino will never file such a lawsuit, because the image damage would be much too high and you can not get anything from a player in normal cases anyway. You can then seize them for decades afterwards. For something like that, you certainly don't put up with the damage to your image. In addition, I could well imagine that it does not work the other way around, since the casino is responsible for complying with the law.
In Austria, the Supreme Court has even ruled that a player can sue for his gambling losses even if he knew about the illegality. In plain language, this means that all players from Austria can Deposit in MGA casinos and retrieve the money at their whim and have nothing to fear from a legal point of view. Sounds crazy, but this is actually the case.

Falke wrote on 04.04.2023 at 00:36:


5. If you look at what is going on in the world, the players who demand their money back are the last ones I get upset about, cue corrupt politicians, lobbyists, kickbacks, Panama Papers etc. Most gamblers are also victims somewhere and with a pronounced addiction also only partially culpable.

The casinos do everything to make you gamble away as much money as possible. The slots are programmed to be as addictive as possible, there are even psychologists involved in the slot development, so that the brain is maximally hooked. As a gambling addict you have no chance to get permanently banned because there are thousands of online casinos. In Curacao casinos, a Gambling addiction ban always applies only to the particular casino and not to the entire casino chain. This makes it impossible to be permanently banned from gambling.

Therefore, I can only repeat it again. I don't feel sorry one bit for a casino that acts illegally and that players sue for their money is absolutely understandable.

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frapi07 wrote on 04.04.2023 at 11:18 am:

I do not claim that this problem is important. There are more important and especially worse things in life.

Your point about the psychos applies to any company. In principle, any company that advertises. Research is done, psychologists are hired, and it's all done to maximize sales. So it's not fair to point the finger only at casino operators.

My argument is not about the casinos. They can all close down for all I care. It's about the players who knew what they were doing and then think they can get away with a black eye. When I was 10,000€ in the red, I never thought about suing Platin or other casinos. I lost almost 7k on Platin alone. But I was the one who deposited, who deliberately speculated with money, not the casino. So I have to accept the consequence (=loss). I'm not saying that because I'm back in the black now. My total balance is still -2000€, but I believe that it was only my fault that I was up to -10,000.

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frapi07 wrote on 04.04.2023 at 11:18 am:



My argument is not about the casinos. They can all close down for all I care. It's about the players who knew what they were doing and then think they can get away with a black eye. When I was 10,000€ in the red, I never thought about suing Platin or other casinos. I lost almost 7k on Platin alone. But I was the one who deposited, who deliberately speculated with money, not the casino. So I have to accept the consequence (=loss). I'm not saying that because I'm back in the black now. My total balance is still -2000€, but I believe that it was only my fault that I was up to -10,000.

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