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Online Casinos in general: Still illegal play discussion thread (Page 3)

Topic created on 26th Apr. 2024 | Page: 3 of 5 | Answers: 62 | Views: 4,856
frapi07
Elite

Still illegal play discussion thread

26th Apr. 2024, at 11:46 pm CEST#31
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bigbig wrote on 26.04.2024 at 23:31: But if I go to a real casino abroad and win there, I can take the money too.🤔 Where is the equal treatment with Online Casinos then?

Online ≠ Offline

Let's assume you want to play in legal online casinos abroad.

Of course they pay tax etc. They are legal and are therefore treated in the same way as offline casinos.

However, you need a registration address to register in an OC. As a visitor, you simply don't have one. Therefore, you cannot open an account there. Without an account, you cannot play. The operators of the online site could accept foreign addresses, but there would be a great Risk that the operator would not receive the money in the event of an open/pending claim (for whatever reason) and would also not be able to claim this money. Each EU country has its own rules regarding gambling.

At offline casinos, you have to pay with cash. You don't need an account (and a registration address) to play there either.



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btssultan
Experienced

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 12:31 am CEST#32
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In principle, the public prosecutor's office is not interested in whether you played there or not. The complaint usually relates to the money received. Where does this money come from? In the end, the public prosecutor's office can throw anything at you, you have the burden of proof that it is not true and in the worst case, it will simply be confiscated and that's it.

What's more laughable about the whole story is that the state can do what it wants and only you are punished, there are no consequences against the Provider himself, as there are no tangible consequences.

In general, as already mentioned, the German state only wants to prevent money from going abroad and others from earning from it, the so-called Player protection does not exist and is of no interest, as can be seen from the fact that the GGL is not even interested if you exceed your LIMIT despite a cross-provider limit, even though an increased limit has never been set for legal providers.

I always compare it to TR5.1, when this system and the mandatory software monitoring was introduced among the machines, the dilemma began.

That was the point when Slot machines were re-regulated and payouts became almost a rarity. How often do you still see a Slot machine being filled today, practically rarely or not at all, in the past it was regular, at least when I played offline more often.

And it is the same online, before this "madness" and the GGL was introduced, you could still win, now it has become a rarity. Underground RTP values that will continue to fall in comparison to the global ranking and the game providers "Novomatic - Greentube" etc. are all playing along.

It is questionable where the state intervenes here, the main thing is to issue licenses to Novomatic, Merkur and Co. who have all operated their business illegally for decades through bogus companies and are now allowed to earn money legally. The mere fact that licenses are granted to providers who have offered their services illegally for decades and are now being told that we want to offer new opportunities... shows just how dishonest this industry is.

To be honest, the state didn't seem to care for 13 years if you played illegally and paid out money and today you are treated like a felon because you don't want others to decide where you leave your money or, if you do play legally, you are just permanently excluded by the software of the providers.

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Iknowyou
Experienced

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 08:08 am CEST#33
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It's quite logical why it all happens like this. Addicts keep playing anyway. And they don't care what the rules are. The main thing is the chance to win. And if the state can make money from it, that's understandable. The state would rather line its pockets than a German player going to the Malta buses and earning nothing

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bigbig
Experienced

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 09:42 am CEST#34
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frapi07 wrote on 26.04.2024 at 23:46

Online ≠ Offline

Let's assume you want to play in legal Online Casinos abroad.

Of course they pay tax etc. They are legal and are therefore treated in the same way as offline casinos.

However, you need a registration address to register in an OC. As a visitor, you simply don't have one. Therefore, you cannot open an account there. Without an account, you cannot play. The operators of the online site could accept foreign addresses, but there would be a high Risk that the operator would not receive the money in the event of an open/pending claim (for whatever reason) and would also not be able to claim this money. Each EU country has its own rules regarding gambling.

At offline casinos, you have to pay with cash. You don't need an account (and a registration address) to play there either.




We always travel across the border to the casino, there have never been any problems with higher wins, you can have them paid out or booked on the in-house card for the next visit to the casino.

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frapi07
Elite

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 09:54 am CEST#35
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bigbig wrote on 27.04.2024 at 09:42:

We always drive across the border to the casino, there have never been any problems with higher wins, you can have them paid out or booked on the in-house card for the next visit to the casino.

Yes, because it's offline. Offline is not the topic of this thread. It's about online casinos. Online is not possible because you need a player account (incl. address).

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gamble1
Icon

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 05:55 pm CEST#36
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frapi07 wrote on 27.04.2024 at 09:54:
Yes, because it's offline. Offline is not the topic of this thread. It's about online casinos. Online is not possible because you need a player account (incl. address).

But there are enough casinos that don't even want your ID, I've even found one at the moment that will pay you 10k without even carrying out any form of Verification

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frapi07
Elite

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 06:49 pm CEST#37
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gamble1 wrote on 27.04.2024 at 17:55:
But there are enough casinos that don't even want your ID, I've even found one that will pay you 10k without even doing any form of Verification

They are breaking the law and are therefore illegal.


You could gamble there as a minor, which is illegal.

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gamble1
Icon

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 07:21 pm CEST#38
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frapi07 wrote on 27.04.2024 at 18:49

They are against the law and therefore illegal.


You could play there as a minor, which is illegal.


Yes, but can a German be prosecuted in Germany if he does something illegal in another country? I don't think so, because if I Deposit money in an illegal casino and gamble, I can't be charged just because I'm a German citizen, even though I'm not in Germany when I carry out the "act", or am I wrong?


Otherwise you would also have to prosecute everyone who smoked a cigarette in the Netherlands before legalization because they are German

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frapi07
Elite

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 07:49 pm CEST#39
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Liked this post: Avatar von Der_Puppenspieler Der_Puppenspieler
gamble1 wrote on 27.04.2024 at 19:21:

Yes, but can you prosecute a German in Germany if he does something illegal in another country? I don't think so because if I Deposit and play in an illegal casino I can't be charged just because I am a citizen of DE even though I am not in DE at all when I do the "deed" or am I wrong ?


Otherwise you would also have to prosecute everyone who smoked one in the Netherlands before legalization because they are German

You've got it wrong.

You won't be prosecuted for doing something illegal abroad. You're being prosecuted because you're doing something illegal in Germany, which is independent of location. You process the transactions with a German account.

It would be interesting to know what it looks like if you process the payments with a foreign account. I do not believe that the tax office of the respective country communicates with the German tax office. Of course, playing OCs (which are illegal here in Germany) would have to be legal there so that you don't get into trouble there.

Edit: but I would be careful going abroad with cash (especially not EU countries). You have to keep in mind that you can only bring <10k to DE. The import is then difficult, even if you then register the money.

By the way, your example with cannabis is not well chosen. Consumption has never been punishable in Germany. If you were caught "high", it was not a criminal offense. The police didn't do anything.

It was different if you were caught driving high in Germany and you had consumed the cannabis in Holland. You are not allowed to drive under the influence of drugs, regardless of where it was consumed.


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LiQuidz
Rookie

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 08:02 pm CEST#40
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gamble1 wrote on 27.04.2024 at 19:21:

Yes, but can you prosecute a German in Germany if he does something illegal in another country? I don't think so because if I Deposit and play in an illegal casino I can't be charged just because I am a citizen of DE even though I am not in DE at all when I do the "deed" or am I wrong ?


If you play abroad in an online casino that does not require Verification, it depends on the laws of the country you are in. If it is legal or not legally regulated there, then there are no consequences. It does not depend on your place of residence or citizenship.


If it was illegal and you are back in Germany, then you could also be prosecuted in Germany, depending on the extent to which the country prosecutes you and what agreement exists with the country in which you did something illegal. Either extradition or the proceedings take place in Germany.

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Hanshanshans
Elite

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 08:07 pm CEST#41
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I had a chat with the chatgpt about Gamble1's original question. The term "transnational gambling" came up pretty quickly. Could be true...

Hansi:
To sum it up, if I remotely control my computer in Germany from the US and gamble in a casino not licensed in Germany, would that be transnational gambling?

Chatgpt:
Yes, that would be an example of transnational gambling. By remotely controlling a computer in Germany from the USA and then playing in an online casino that is not licensed in Germany, you are crossing geographical and legal borders. This gives rise to various legal risks:

1. **Regulations in Germany**: Although you are physically in the US, the action takes place on a German computer. This means that German laws and regulations may apply. If the online casino is not licensed in Germany, you may be in violation of German gambling laws.

2. **Regulations in the USA**: As you are in the USA, US laws may also be relevant, especially if gambling is heavily regulated or prohibited in your state.


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frapi07
Elite

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 08:22 pm CEST#42
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Hanshanshans wrote on 27.04.2024 at 20:07: I had a "chat" with the chatgpt about Gamble1's original question. The term "transnational gambling" came up pretty quickly. Could be right...

Hansi:
To sum it up, if I remotely control my computer in Germany from the US and gamble at a casino not licensed in Germany, would that be transnational gambling?

Chatgpt:
Yes, that would be an example of transnational gambling. By remotely controlling a computer in Germany from the USA and then playing in an online casino that is not licensed in Germany, you are crossing geographical and legal borders. This gives rise to various legal risks:

1. **Regulations in Germany**: Although you are physically in the US, the action takes place on a German computer. This means that German laws and regulations may apply. If the online casino is not licensed in Germany, you may be in violation of German gambling laws.

2. **Regulations in the USA**: As you are in the USA, US laws may also be relevant, especially if gambling is heavily regulated or prohibited in your state.



Yes, it's all theory. Even lawyers would only give estimates here. To be able to judge better, similar cases must have already ended up in court and have a judgment.

LiQuidz wrote on 04/27/2024 20:02:

If you're playing abroad at an online casino that doesn't require Verification, it depends on the laws of the country you're in. If it is legal or not regulated by law there, there are no consequences. It does not depend on your place of residence or citizenship.


If it was illegal and you are back in Germany, then you could also be prosecuted in Germany, depending on the extent to which the country prosecutes you and what agreement exists with the country in which you did something illegal. Either extradition or the proceedings take place in Germany.


In my opinion, it is not the place of residence that is relevant, but the bank account. Without a report from the bank, there will never be an investigation. The OCs don't report the players - it's the banks.

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Pat1991
Top Member

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 08:31 pm CEST#43
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What do we learn from this? Use crypto and that's that.

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LiQuidz
Rookie

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 08:43 pm CEST#44
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Pat1991 wrote on 27.04.2024 at 20:31: What do we learn from this? Use crypto and that's it.

Would be good if e.g. Trustwallet now had a Master or Visa Card connected to the wallet to be able to pay with it instead of having to exchange the coins via an exchange. Or is there such a thing?

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Pat1991
Top Member

Still illegal play discussion thread

27th Apr. 2024, at 08:59 pm CEST#45
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Coinbase has something like this, a debit card for crypto. Unfortunately, according to the terms and conditions, you are probably not allowed to use the service for gambling, and I don't know whether a money laundering check could be carried out in the event of a larger win or larger crypto deposits.

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