Online Casinos in general: Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value. (Page 7)
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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It's just a matter of explaining to the Munich public prosecutor's office what should actually be self-evident.
No casino player earns money from gambling, this is ensured by the house advantage of the casinos and you don't have to be a math genius or gambling expert to understand this.
My bank apparently provided the public prosecutor with some bank statements from a short period of time when I had these withdrawals. Because I only deposited with Paysafecard at that time, these deposits are not shown on the account statements. This suggests that I earned money by gambling.
What's more, they're only picking out a short period (6 months) when I had my biggest wins.
If you want to collect compensation, you should at least refer to the entire period in which I 'illegally' gambled and calculate book money from all deposits and withdrawals.
For me, the fact that drug dealers earn good money with their business and this can then be confiscated is completely different from stealing from players who have gambled away their money in EU-licensed casinos by now wanting to take away their wins afterwards, which in the long run have only slightly reduced their losses.
In addition to Red Rhino and Pandamedia, Rabbit Entertainment Ltd. is also mentioned in my application. Why do I poor player have to return payouts from there to the judiciary while this group has taken money from x players in the same period and received the German rip-off license as a reward shortly afterwards? Not that I don't begrudge them it, but it's all a joke what's being pulled off here.
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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It's quite clear to me that you don't earn any money with it, and please don't get me wrong, I'm keeping my fingers crossed and I'm on your side, I hope it works as you've planned. I'm just skeptical.
And the comparison with the drug Dealer is not really something completely different, if you are arrested with 10 kg, you also have acquisition costs, you don't get it for free.
And precisely these costs/depositors should be calculated/deducted on what basis?
I wonder on what basis, or is it supposed to prove your expenses and show that money has flowed there and there, and nothing is left and you have stopped playing on these platforms, and it is quasi asked for "mercy/mildness" and appealed to the moral/ethical side ? 🤔
That's kind of the only thing I could imagine your legal counsel trying to do.
But just using the transaction history, where all deposits and withdrawals are generally visible, should be legally insignificant and irrelevant, for which violations can you practically negotiate out expenses to commit them and reduce the amount?
I really hope the best for you and keep my fingers crossed. And yes, I completely agree with you on the point that it's all a bad joke.
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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Please tell us the explanation from the public prosecutor's office and the court about this if you can put forward this argument... There will probably be squirming and wrestling like at the BPK when critical questions are asked... 😂
Of course, I hope even more that there will be no trial at all and that they will refrain from this nonsense.
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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mtorero
None of this makes any sense. I could ask you the following question now and I'm sure you won't be able to give a proper answer.
Why are only 6 months included and not all months? He has been playing for decades and surely he will have received other wins. The other wins should also be included, or am I making a mistake? The transactions are all documented, so they wouldn't even be estimates. Is a public prosecutor only allowed to cherry-pick or what?
I also wonder why the other culprit is not punished. There are many casinos that have fraudulently deceived players by making them believe that they have levied the German gambling tax. As a result, many players believed they were playing in legal casinos. So it is not only the player who is to blame, but the players are the only ones who are punished here.
This is arbitrariness, that's all it is.
It can actually be interpreted as a retrial, because that's all it is. It is about the same facts and the same person. However, a retrial is only possible under certain conditions. These are very strictly regulated. But I'm not a lawyer - that's just my opinion.
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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We're not going to agree here. The drug dealer (if he's not being completely stupid) always makes a win. The casino player, on the other hand, always makes a loss.
I can prove all my losses in black and white.
Apart from that, you shouldn't compare someone who has played in an EU-licensed casino with drug dealers who accept that their customers suffer serious physical harm or even death.
In your comparison, the casinos are the drug dealers who always make a win. So why are they not punished?
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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Chewi
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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Yes, the world is simply deeply unfair.
I would really say of myself that I always try to see the good in people.
It takes someone with deeply selfish, sadistic, greedy, etc. motives to really screw up so that I don't try to imitate their behavior. It takes someone with deeply selfish, sadistic, greedy, etc. motives to really f**k up so that I don't try to understand their behavior and think about what might have motivated them.
I try to do the same with political decisions in the narrowest and broadest sense.
Ultimately, however, you have to realize that where the money flows, unjust decisions are made, usually with the effect of letting even more money flow to where there is already a lot. The decision-maker of certain things doesn't have to be a bad person; in a certain way, it becomes impossible to escape their influence at some point.
From a global perspective, we in Europe tend to be on the winning side compared to bitterly poor countries; from a local perspective, the little man, as you call him, is on the losing side... There's not much to talk about.
So offtopic, sorry 🙈😄
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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I can't give you a correct answer to that, how could I? Like you and everyone else, I have no insight into the matter.
I could imagine that they may still have a waiting period or what do I know, maybe other sums are too low and it is not worth "collecting" them, or they are time-barred, I don't know.
This approach may even be in his interest, just imagine they were "skimming off" all the sums that come about in this way.
Of course, this could be/is also arbitrary/arbitrary, I also see it that way, I also have no understanding for the procedure. But it's doubtful (from my point of view) that you can get any further with the argumentation, but I've played and won a lot more ... that could also backfire if they want to interpret it in the most extreme way in Bavaria.
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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I'm not comparing them to drug dealers either, so please, that should be clear if I was misleading, sincere apologies, that really wasn't my intention.
My only intention with the comparison was to show that the drug dealer also has expenses or investments that he cannot deduct from any damages if there is a threat of confiscation.
And of course he can also make a loss, as soon as he is caught and they can prove a certain amount of traff**king, it is definitely the case that he makes a loss, because a) he had to pay it (including the amount seized) and b) this skimming takes place afterwards.
Furthermore, I would like to point out that a consumer is also punished if he has a certain amount, and sometimes hard, and the instrument of the crime (cell phone, money, etc.) is also seized.
PS: These substances should also be regulated and dispensed in an orderly manner, it is absolutely not expedient to put everything in the dirty corner, neither for prevention nor to protect consumers, let's be honest, anyone who is 3 times 6 should be allowed to do what they want as long as they only harm themselves, similar to gambling, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.
You can't say that you bought the stolen cell phone, which is worth 800, for 200, and the original owner only has a recourse claim of 600 because you had to spend 200, that's what it means. If they have the cell phone you have to compensate the value if you get caught, instead of cell phone you can take anything, I don't care if it's spare parts of a car or even a car etc..
Why the casinos are not prosecuted is incomprehensible, I'm with you on that, although we don't know whether those who don't do this voluntarily pay taxes to buy their way out, so to speak.
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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I don't think those responsible have any insight into the matter themselves. Otherwise I can't explain this circus.
My post was not an attack on you. Thank you for not interpreting it that way either (I just wanted to mention it briefly).
The statute of limitations: We don't need to look at the periods before the gambling agreement because the whole thing was in a gray area there. We are talking about the period after the gambling agreement (July 2021) and these are certainly not time-barred. Strangely enough, however, only a specific period was selected here where it appeared to be well in the black. That's exactly the point that doesn't make sense to me. Yes, it would put more pressure on him, but that's not the point at the moment. It's about the sense that you're looking for here in vain. I've never seen a public prosecutor's office disregard criminal offenses that have been proven. Have you?
I also see the argument based on wins/losses as weak, but that's for mrtorero to know and decide for himself. I would rather argue that the whole system is arbitrary and makes no sense and that there are providers who have maliciously deceived their players into believing that they are playing legally. The German state has done nothing about it so far, except to make players pay while illegal providers continue to cash in. I therefore argue that the player himself is the victim and not the perpetrator.
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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Yes, the whole thing is very tricky because it's new, circus is pretty accurate, it's certainly not yet time-barred (although it may become time-barred after 12 to 24 months, although I think the "time of the offense" plays a role here), and other sums may just be too small.
No nonsense, why should I understand the attack, and that I don't understand it that way, you really don't have to thank me for that, that would really be too much of a good thing 🤪You could understand it as an attack if you really want to, it's just a discourse and I see it as quite positive if it is sometimes a bit sharper, then it is more likely to be effective, in my experience
And yes, I have certainly noticed that something is not prosecuted, e.g. if you do something for 2 Euro thieves, it is also stopped and not prosecuted further, in contrast to fare evasion where you are prosecuted and can even get a prison sentence for it.
I could imagine that it's also a black box for the public prosecutor's office, and that they have only considered this period and this sum in order to get legal certainty, the sum is too large for a judge or whoever to dismiss it. If only for future cases with significantly lower sums and the legal certainty mentioned above resulting from his case, this could ultimately lead to a chain reaction in which countless collection proceedings are opened from the day it was bindingly established. At least I could imagine that.
This person may just be over-motivated and acting in anticipatory obedience, so to speak. But I think it's more likely that there was an instruction to pursue possible cases where it would make sense (would be worthwhile) to pursue this skimming.
Yes, and with this win/loss calculation he could, if things go badly, poke a hornet's nest, so to speak, who's to say that the person working on it won't want to collect all the other sums? So purely from the point of view of waking the sleeping dog and telling them "huhu you've ignored a lot of processes", that's where I see the real Risk, especially if there's someone over-motivated at work.
That reminds me of offsetting and such, I think I read that here a long time ago (if I have it right in my head), and there was someone who had won something and then the job center took it into account, my consensus was that at most the spin that led to the win could be deducted, other depositors who lost could not "deduct" the person either.
Yes, the state has done nothing in this regard, and of course one could argue that the player himself is a victim, although in this case and in this area the public prosecutor's office could at least assume negligence, i.e. no intent, which is why the criminal proceedings were dropped and the confiscation of the money was carried out under the aspect of an administrative offense, ergo the public prosecutor's office itself tells you with its action that there is no intent but at least negligence, if you drive a car like a bumper car it is a criminal offense because it is intent, if you make dents and headlights because you drive too close, there are no criminal proceedings but you are still guilty and have to "pay". Hopefully my argument is comprehensible, at least in principle 🫣
We could debate and philosophize about this forever and three days, I think the main reason that this wipe came is the federal state, I mean if in Bavaria extra "playgrounds" are created just to prevent such a cultivation club for cannabis, it says it all, and why only because those "up there" are afraid that the number of consumers who come from the dark into the light, which destroys their world view.
In the end we have to wait and hope that it turns out well for mrtorero, and that we get updates from time to time, and until then we have to hope that our sparrow brains don't explode because of the bullshit.
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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We'll probably never know the exact reasons, but it's funny.
Reading through it, I noticed that I was slightly passive-aggressive. I therefore wanted to apologize and let you know that it wasn't intended that way. Something can come across wrong, especially when writing. But my aggression is not directed at you, but at the Munich public prosecutor's office.
The amount does not matter in the case of theft. Theft = theft. It is usually stopped because the value of the goods is less than €10, but you can also get social hours. There is no guarantee for this. It depends on the public prosecutor. But you can't really compare that here because it's only one offense. But here - for whatever reason - wins are not included, which together certainly add up to a nice sum. I don't know if I've expressed myself well, but it would almost be as if a thief were to demand compensation only once for his most successful theft, even though he knows that he has also stolen countless times. It just doesn't make sense, because for the other times there is also a claim for compensation and the German state is certainly not so nice and merciful and turns a blind eye.
Ultimately, this is all speculation. Regardless of what the Munich public prosecutor is doing with this circus, it's pathetic and has nothing to do with justice.
Of course there is a risk, but I would try it if I were him, even if I don't think it's realistic to expect it to be successful. I see greater chances with the other arguments. I think mrtorero will certainly consult with his defender and do what he's told.
Yes, let's hope that this attempt by the Munich public prosecutor goes down the drain. But it's still a scandal that people are put under such stress. We're talking about a gambler who most likely leads a normal life and is being treated like a serious criminal just because he played a few slots on the Internet.
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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So since when are such statements welcome here? Am I allowed to share political things here?
Edit by Julian: Quotation adjusted
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Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.
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Just ignore it instead of immediately calling for censorship. Nobody reacted to it anyway.
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