Online Casinos in general: Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value. (Page 4)

frapi07 wrote on 03.10.2024 at 14:38

Wunderharke hasn't contributed anything here. Do you mean btssultan?

If so: the page was created on 08.08, i.e. less than 2 months ago. So it is apparently quite new and that also explains why some lawyers are so unsure. Perhaps there are no similar cases that have already been concluded. Would make sense, as mrtorero's lawyer is also interested in this.

Well, it doesn't seem to matter to me. I am a person who wants to understand his fellow human beings better and I wonder why one cannot accept a discontinued case and now reopen another case on a different basis, but which involves the same person and the same case. What is the purpose of this? That's my question, because it's not really aimed at anything, except to prepare a person (mrtorero) for further headaches, even though he had enough problems and headaches with the case and had believed for a few months that this nightmare was finally behind him. But I can agree with you on one point: it doesn't matter what age or hair color this person has.

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frapi07 wrote on 03.10.2024 at 13:07:

Won't be much different in Bavaria, but I really believe that there is simply a conservative person behind it. This person won't know much about gambling and co. either, wouldn't be unusual. Why this person has to make such a racket (the case was dropped and mrtorero didn't have to pay a fine) - that's the question I've been asking myself for a few days now.


Does this person really just want to flush money into the state coffers or does this person demonize gambling in general and see gamblers as serious criminals? Or is there another reason behind it? We'll probably never get an answer to that, but one thing is certain: this is a rare case so far (possibly also a novelty) and I don't understand why lawyers don't want to take on this case. Maybe I just don't have the legal basis and I don't know the details of the case, but from the consumer's point of view it's simply absurd that only the consumer is being punished here, instead of the right people being hunted down, normal people who normally haven't done anything wrong and also pay their taxes normally and are part of society. Several people have criticized this.

Why should a state be entitled to the full amount of the win? I understand that it's about the tax, but if you forget to pay tax, you usually just pay it later + a possible penalty of the same amount is imposed. At least this is the case with customs - i.e. for cigarettes and co. or if you simply exceed the tax-free quantity.

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Stromberg wrote on 03.10.2024 at 15:08:

Btssulten, yup that's who I meant... 😄


I just think that this may not be caused by any personal views, but that the whole thing may become standard and mtoro is simply the first to make such a case known here.
And the public prosecutor or whoever simply implements new guidelines...

morallyreprehensible wrote on 03.10.2024 at 16:19:

You can't say it's safe, that it's a rare case or even possibly a novelty.

Just because it has not yet been reported here at GJ or in other forums or perhaps one or the other lawyer does not want to take on such a matter.
I put my hand in the fire that there are hundreds of such cases throughout Germany and only a tiny fraction are reported on the net. Not everyone is open about their gambling affinity, not even anonymously online.

Nothing against you personally, but sometimes you get the feeling that many people here always think that if there's nothing about it here on GJ, then it's something extraordinary/new/never seen before.....

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Stromberg wrote on 03.10.2024 at 19:17: @frapi: we don't even need to discuss this and I hope it doesn't become the standard.
I just wanted to say that, in my opinion, there are no subjective motives of an overly moral prosecutor behind it, but rather a future legal handling...
I didn't want to say anything about justice, upcoming proceedings, discontinued proceedings etc. and I didn't.

Just couldn't quite understand why you were thinking so much about who might have caused this and for what subjective reasons. 😄✌️

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frapi07 wrote on 03.10.2024 at 19:36:
Because to me it seems like someone really wants to punish "illegal" players and now they're trying to do it this way. This is no longer objective, but subjective. As I said, you are welcome to use this new "method", but not in the discontinued proceedings, at least that's what I personally think.

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Pat1991 wrote on 04.10.2024 00:59:

Wasn't it just in the works to declare gambling a misdemeanor at most? I wonder if such problems would be washed with it.

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mtorero wrote on 04.10.2024 09:10:

By the way, it is the Attorney General's Office under the direction of Ms. Bäumer-Hösl.

You can google, for example, how this lady had memory gaps in the Wirecard investigation committee just like our great Chancellor.
I am a single-earner husband and father of a 6-month-old baby and pay off debts month after month, which were mainly incurred at a time when I deposited too much in casinos. By the way, I have been gambling regularly since I was 16 (back then you could legally gamble in casinos at 16 because you had to exchange money for gambling coins first)
Despite this, we're still making ends meet and I've been very motivated recently because the mountain of Debt has shrunk considerably, despite all my other payment obligations.
Targobank didn't like this because they kept trying to push more usurious loans on me and provided the public prosecutor's office with bank statements, apparently from a period when I was able to make good payments.
These account statements don't show how much I deposited because I mostly used Paysafecards at that time.
The General Prosecutor's Office in Munich believes that poor casinos are being fleeced by players.
A topsy-turvy world...

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frapi07 wrote on 04.10.2024 at 09:36:
You can really only get angry that you really try everything against normal people and when I read something like this here

Infidelity trial against Green politician postponed again | NDR.de - News - Lower Saxony - Studio Osnabrück

At the moment I can't find any updates on this either, i.e. this trial is still pending. It's now October, so they're really taking their time.

Regarding your personal situation: don't let it get you down! Keep going and don't think about this problem, even if it's not easy. Don't take out any loans either, they are simply too expensive and don't solve any problems, they just postpone them.

I googled this prosecutor... I found something nice: Press release 5/2023 - Bavarian State Ministry of Justice (bayern.de)

From this press release you can read the following:

Senior public prosecutor Hildegard Bäumler-Hösl new head of the Central and Coordination Office for Asset Recovery in Bavaria since March 1, 2023

State Attorney General Reinhard Röttle: "I am really delighted that we have been able to recruit Hildegard Bäumler-Hösl, one of the most experienced economic investigators in Germany, as the new head of the ZKV."

Background information:

On October 1, 2022, the areas of activity of the Central Coordination Office for Asset Recovery in Bavaria (ZKV BY), which has been part of the Munich Public Prosecutor General's Office since October 9, 2018, were expanded. At the same time, it was renamed the Central and Coordination Office for Asset Recovery Bavaria (ZKV).

The Act on the Reform of Asset Recovery under Criminal Law, which came into force on July 1, 2017, significantly expanded the scope of application of the confiscation of proceeds of crime and the possibilities of compensating victims of crime while they are still in the criminal enforcement proceedings ("crime does not pay"). The Bavarian Central and Coordination Office for Asset Recovery (ZKV) supports the Bavarian courts and public prosecutors' offices not only in the consistent confiscation of incriminated assets from drug-related crimes, organized crime and white-collar crime, but also in all matters relating to the compensation of crime victims.


This person was recently hired specifically for this purpose. This confirms my suspicion that such proceedings really only come from the Munich district court, at least in Bavaria. I have no idea what the situation is like nationwide.

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mtorero wrote on 04.10.2024 at 09:38:
I have already searched specifically for lawyers involved in gambling law.

One law firm said I should rather contact a criminal defense lawyer. Another lawyer recommended the law firm that I contacted shortly before and is now representing me.
I also had time pressure because the appeal period is about to expire and I was told in a telephone conference with two lawyers that it is not an easy case but that we have a good chance. A normal lawyer won't be able to help me.
We're still sick at home and totally exhausted and I had to make a quick decision: just under 5,000 or 14,350 euros

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