Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

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Amateur

mtorero

Topic Creator

Forum posts: 142 Member since: 04.04.2022

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 11:05 am CEST#16

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Stromberg wrote on 01.10.2024 at 09:16: If such a payment really were to be made, and if it were to become common practice somehow (at least no one has ever reported anything about it here), then it is questionable whether losses would be offset at all.
To stay with the example of the thief, a bicycle thief will not be allowed to deduct the price of bolt cutters from the profits from the sale of the bike to the state, I assume.

It will be interesting to see what happens, I hope they don't get away with it...

New business model for GJ.... Premium memberships that include free initial legal advice... 😄

You can of course discuss how negligent it was to have played at Platin/Rabbit Entertainment Ltd./PandaMedia (does anyone know which casino there was) in early/mid-2022. Although Rabbit is licensed!

After all, Platin deducted the betting tax and one could assume that they would also get the license like Wunderino, sunmaker or the Rabbit Group.

Because I was able to win something and pay out, I don't think that should be equated with grand theft, although I would have harmed another person.

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Legend

Stromberg

Forum posts: 4.749 Member since: 17.07.2017

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 11:13 am CEST#17

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mtorero wrote on 01.10.2024 at 11:05:
One can of course discuss how negligent it was to have played at Platin/Rabbit Entertainment Ltd/PandaMedia (does anyone know which casino was there) in early/mid 2022. Whereby Rabbit is licensed after all!

After all, Platin deducted the betting tax and one could assume that they would also get the license like Wunderino, sunmaker or the Rabbit Group.

Because I was able to win something and pay out, I don't think that should be equated with grand theft, whereby I would have harmed another person.

Of course not!

I just wanted to make it clear that, unlike with casino reclaims from the customer, I don't believe that loss and win would be offset in such a case or that you don't know it...
Basically, there's not much you can say about it, as you've heard practically nothing about it.
I only chose the example of the thief because you had mentioned it before in a different context...

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Amateur

mtorero

Topic Creator

Forum posts: 142 Member since: 04.04.2022

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 11:26 am CEST#18

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Stromberg wrote on 01.10.2024 at 11:13 am:

Of course not!

I just wanted to make it clear that, unlike with casino reclaims from the customer, I don't believe that loss and win would be offset in such a case or that it is not known...
Basically, there's not much you can say about it, as you've heard practically nothing about it.
I only chose the example of the thief because you had mentioned it before in a different context...

Exactly, but I mean that it should be clear to the public prosecutor's office that every player is in the red unless they have won a Jackpot worth millions. The casinos have their house edge and you don't have to be a math genius to understand that.

Of course, it's different with crimes such as theft or drug dealing, where you can make a nice win.

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Amateur

Marieangels

Forum posts: 185 Member since: 27.12.2022

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 05:55 pm CEST#19

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You can find out about it on the net.... Lawyers are writing about it everywhere. If the proceedings are discontinued, there is no threat of anything, including no payments (except for your own lawyer). If the public prosecutor's office wants something, it has to reopen the proceedings, which is possible. You need to be informed about this. Have they written to you that the proceedings have been reopened? I would consult a lawyer immediately. If you have no money, there are ways to get help.

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Amateur

mtorero

Topic Creator

Forum posts: 142 Member since: 04.04.2022

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 07:30 pm CEST#20

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Marieangels wrote on 01.10.2024 at 17:55: You can find out about it on the net.... Lawyers write about it everywhere. If the proceedings are discontinued, there is no threat of anything, including no payments (except for your own lawyer) If the public prosecutor's office wants something, it has to reopen the proceedings, which is possible. You need to be informed about this. Have they written to you that the proceedings have been reopened? I would consult a lawyer immediately. If you have no money, there are ways to get help.

Don't stress, I have already contacted a lawyer who deals with gambling law and am waiting for his next reply.

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Amateur

mtorero

Topic Creator

Forum posts: 142 Member since: 04.04.2022

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 08:01 pm CEST#21

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Enclosed is the application form:

In independent confiscation proceedings pursuant to §435 StPO, §76a para. 1 to 3 StGB against mtorero

Based on its investigations, the Public Prosecutor General's Office assumes the following facts:

On unknown dates before or on 27.01.2022 and 26.07.2022, the person concerned took part in sports betting or casino games organized by Red Rhino Ltd, Panda Media and Rabbit Entertainment Ltd.b, each based in Malta. The player's chance of winning does not depend significantly on the player's attentiveness, skills or knowledge, but solely or mainly on chance. At the time, the companies did not have a license to operate sports betting or casino games in Germany. In the period from 27.01.2022 and 26.07.2022, Red Rhino Ltd, Panda Media and Rabbit Entertainment Ltd paid out wins totaling EUR 14,350 from these sports bets or games.

The person concerned at least accepted the fact that this was a public game of chance for which no license existed in Germany.

The person concerned obtained book money totaling EUR 14,350 as a result of the offences, which is subject to confiscation of compensation pursuant to Sections 73, 73c StGBb.

The accused was therefore a suspect,

having been involved in a public game of chance

and thus to have committed the following offence(s):

Participation in unauthorized gambling pursuant to §285 StGB.

The above-mentioned mtorero of the confiscation has obtained book money in the amount of 14,350 euros through the offense or for the offense (§ 73 para. 1 StGB).

Confiscation of the item(s) is not possible due to its/their nature or for another reason (Section 73c sentence 1 StGB). The book money obtained was placed in the current account of the account and is therefore no longer available as such in the original.

According to Sections 73c, 73d StGB, the value of the money obtained is EUR 14,350.

The requirements for independent confiscation under Section 76a StGB are met:
The proceedings for the offense were discontinued in accordance with a provision that permits this at the discretion of the public prosecutor or the court or by agreement of both (Section 76a (3) StGB). The proceedings against mtorero were discontinued by order dated 16.02.2024 in accordance with 153 para. 1 StPO.

The conviction is in accordance with
§§ 7 - 13, 436 StPO, §§ 24 para. 1, 25 no. 2 GVG of the Munich District Court - Criminal Judge.

It is requested,

1. to open the independent confiscation proceedings - criminal judge,
1. to order the confiscation of compensation in the amount of 14,200 euros against the person affected by the confiscation (§§ 436 Para. 2, 434 Para. 2 StPO),
1. to decide by order (sections 436 (2), 434 (2) of the Code of Criminal Procedure) and
1. to order that mtorero be involved in the proceedings (sections 435 (3) sentence 2, 424 (1), (4) StPO)

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Amateur

mtorero

Topic Creator

Forum posts: 142 Member since: 04.04.2022

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 08:07 pm CEST#22

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mtorero wrote on 01.10.2024 at 20:01: Enclosed is the application form:

In independent confiscation proceedings pursuant to §435 StPO, §76a para. 1 to 3 StGB against mtorero

Based on its investigations, the Public Prosecutor General's Office assumes the following facts:

On unknown dates before or on 27.01.2022 and 26.07.2022, the person concerned took part in sports betting or casino games organized by Red Rhino Ltd, Panda Media and Rabbit Entertainment Ltd.b, each based in Malta. The player's chance of winning does not depend significantly on the player's attentiveness, skills or knowledge, but solely or mainly on chance. At the time, the companies did not have a license to operate sports betting or casino games in Germany. In the period from 27.01.2022 and 26.07.2022, Red Rhino Ltd, Panda Media and Rabbit Entertainment Ltd paid out wins totaling EUR 14,350 from these sports bets or games.

The person concerned at least accepted the fact that this was a public game of chance for which no license existed in Germany.

The person concerned obtained book money totaling 14,350 euros as a result of the offences, which is subject to confiscation of compensation in accordance with § 73, 73c StGBb.

The accused was therefore a suspect,

having been involved in a public game of chance

and thus to have committed the following offence(s):

Participation in unauthorized gambling pursuant to §285 StGB.

The above-mentioned mtorero of the confiscation has obtained book money in the amount of 14,350 euros through the offense or for the offense (§ 73 para. 1 StGB).

Confiscation of the item(s) is not possible due to its/their nature or for another reason (Section 73c sentence 1 StGB). The book money obtained was placed in the current account of the account and is therefore no longer available as such in the original.

According to Sections 73c, 73d StGB, the value of the money obtained is EUR 14,350.

The requirements for independent confiscation under Section 76a StGB are met:
The proceedings for the offense were discontinued in accordance with a provision that permits this at the discretion of the public prosecutor or the court or by agreement of both (Section 76a (3) StGB). The proceedings against mtorero were discontinued by order dated 16.02.2024 in accordance with 153 para. 1 StPO.

The conviction is based on
§§ 7 - 13, 436 StPO, §§ 24 para. 1, 25 no. 2 GVG of the Munich District Court - Criminal Judge.

It is requested,

1. to open the independent confiscation proceedings - criminal judge,
1. to order the confiscation of compensation in the amount of 14,200 euros against the person affected by the confiscation (§§ 436 Para. 2, 434 Para. 2 StPO),
1. to decide by order (sections 436 (2), 434 (2) of the Code of Criminal Procedure) and
1. to order that mtorero be involved in the proceedings (sections 435 (3) sentence 2, 424 (1), (4) of the Code of Criminal Procedure)

In short, approx. 7 months after my proceedings for involvement in illegal gambling were discontinued, the Munich Local Court picked out the highest payouts from that time and would now like to have the money for itself...

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Elite

frapi07

Forum posts: 3.008 Member since: 27.02.2021

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 09:27 pm CEST#23

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mtorero wrote on 01.10.2024 at 20:07:

In short, about 7 months after my proceedings for involvement in unauthorized gambling were discontinued, the Munich District Court has picked out the highest payouts from that time and would now like to have the money for itself...

Where were your proceedings decided? Was it the Munich district court by any chance?

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Amateur

mtorero

Topic Creator

Forum posts: 142 Member since: 04.04.2022

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 09:43 pm CEST#24

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frapi07 wrote on 01.10.2024 at 21:27:

Where was your case decided? Was it the Munich district court by any chance?

Yes, Munich Local Court

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Elite

frapi07

Forum posts: 3.008 Member since: 27.02.2021

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 09:53 pm CEST#25

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mtorero wrote on 01.10.2024 at 21:43:

Yes, Munich district court

As I understand it (I'm not really familiar with legal channels), they decided in your favor and some judge or whatever didn't like it at all and is now trying another way. It's really funny that someone from there of all places is opening another case. I wonder what they're trying to achieve. I really don't think it has any chance. It really seems more like someone is trying to get their way with a cramp.

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Experienced

btssultan

verified

Forum posts: 312 Member since: 08.11.2020

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 10:36 pm CEST#26

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The public prosecutor's office is actually saying that you have acquired or received money in accordance with Section 286 of the German Criminal Code (StGB), which comes from illegal gambling and therefore does not belong to you and we would now like to have the money from you.

Although it was also acquired illegally, our constitutional state is of course always allowed to enrich itself with illegal goods.

It's no different to having a bomb on your property, you have to bear the costs of clearing or removing it, but if you find a treasure, it belongs to the state.

In the best case scenario, you will never have made any verifiable wins and will have no problems paying money to the state.

In any case, keep your fingers crossed that you don't have to pay it back, also because the whole story is still controversial today, or where are all the judgments and penalties from the court against all the providers.

Theoretically, every Provider would have to pay large sums of money for each case that they offered their business illegally in Germany... In fact, nothing is found, they even get licenses from the GGL and can now continue their now legal business practices under newly founded subsidiaries in Germany.

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Expert

Saphira

Moderatorverified

Forum posts: 1.962 Member since: 24.01.2019

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 11:02 pm CEST#27

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Can only agree with btssultan here. The independent confiscation of compensation for lost value is relatively new and highly controversial, as it interferes intensively with the property rights of those affected and virtually no proof or prior conviction is required to do so. In your case, it was even stopped beforehand due to "insignificance". And this is where opinions differ. I've just read up a bit. What's more, there is interference with assets that are not the result of illegal actions, as the money in question is virtually no longer there and the future confiscation would then have to be carried out by means of salary garnishment or similar. But I don't know much about that. In any case, I'll keep my fingers crossed that you have a good defense lawyer who can represent you optimally and avert this.

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Top Member

XXLEONIDASXX

Forum posts: 602 Member since: 21.09.2020

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

1st Oct. 2024, at 11:25 pm CEST#28

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It's so clear again what kind of country we live in...the little man should stay as small and low as possible so that the big ones have room to grow..🤮🤮

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Expert

Falke

Forum posts: 1.834 Member since: 06.03.2020

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

2nd Oct. 2024, at 12:20 am CEST#29

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It is nothing more than theft. But people have been warning about developments like this for a long time and most people didn't want to admit it. That's what happens when a frog jumps into cold water and the hob is switched on. At first he thinks that it will be as pleasantly warm as when the government imposes more and more restrictions. Until the water gets hotter and hotter and you realize what a trap you've fallen into.

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Expert

MisterL

Forum posts: 1.579 Member since: 15.01.2017

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

2nd Oct. 2024, at 12:52 am CEST#30

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jeton changes something!
revolut also changed something today regarding crypto
here the thread: penalties about penalties pay or move out
everything in upheaval somehow

somehow reminds of a fishing net that is now being caught with a mesh size larger than 5000,-

the EU can take a whole country into custody, what are small banks or even big ones

and cryptos are also already on the screen, only the mesh size is larger, I think, because it is more difficult to collect

yesterday "hart aber fair" for what billionaires

now war

life is better without money

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