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Online Casinos in general: Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value. (Page 12)

Topic created on 30th Sep. 2024 | Page: 12 of 12 | Answers: 179 | Views: 25,996
Druff
Amateur

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

24th Mar. 2025, at 12:37 pm CET#166
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frapi07 wrote on March 24th, 2025 at 12:30 pm:

Correct, it is the predecessor. The law was reformed in 2017 and was therefore a different law. Also, the guy here has had a positive record. Mrtorero didn't. The total incoming and outgoing payments were also taken into account - not here.


Correct, the law reform ensures that valuables can also be confiscated.


And due to the tightening up, the balance sheet no longer plays a role 🤦

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frapi07
Elite

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

24th Mar. 2025, at 12:51 pm CET#167
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Druff wrote on March 24th, 2025 at 12:37 pm:

Right, the law reform ensures that valuables can also be confiscated...


And due to the tightening, the balance sheet no longer plays a role 🤦

Exactly. But they are still two different laws, which is precisely why mrtorero had a hard time finding a lawyer for it.

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Druff
Amateur

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

24th Mar. 2025, at 12:56 pm CET#168
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frapi07 wrote on March 24th, 2025 at 12:51 pm:

Exactly. They are still two different laws, which is precisely why mrtorero had a hard time finding a lawyer for it.

It is the same law, it was simply "reformed" and the confiscation was simplified and extended e.g. to valuables (if I have interpreted this correctly).

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Gerdi
Visitor

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

24th Mar. 2025, at 03:16 pm CET#169
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@Druff The difference in the case is quite simply that the man in the case was convicted because it was proven that he had engaged in illegal gambling and he was therefore given consequences by the court. In other words, the court decided that he was guilty. This was the only reason why he was punished and had to hand over the win he made from this offense.

What is new about the law and discussed in this thread is the so-called "independent confiscation". This states that no conviction is required to confiscate money or valuables. Previously, you had peace of mind if you were not explicitly convicted as guilty.

This meant that if, for example, the offense was time-barred after three years, there was not enough evidence for a conviction or the proceedings were dropped due to a lack of public interest (or minor guilt), nothing could happen to you in the past. Since the reform, however, the public prosecutor's office can (or must) now say in such cases: there is no conviction for which you will be fined, but we will still collect the win if it obviously comes from illegal gambling.

That's how it was with mtorero: the court says that there was no intent, nobody suffered any direct damage and there is no long-term damage (or whatever), so the case is dropped and there is no punishment for him. The public prosecutor's office says: Okay, but the bank statement clearly shows that he received tens of thousands of euros from a casino without a license, so he has to hand them in, even if he doesn't get an (additional) fine.

That's why the case here is not comparable, because confiscation after a conviction has actually always existed. However, the fact that the win is also confiscated without a conviction or after the proceedings have been discontinued is new.

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fros7byte
Rookie

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

24th Mar. 2025, at 06:49 pm CET#170
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nevertheless, this issue is and remains more than absurd. For 99% of players, there is nothing left to confiscate because the money has ended up back in the casino. So there was no enrichment whatsoever and such a confiscation would lead (at the latest) every player to personal insolvency because money is confiscated that is not even there. Instead, the public prosecutor's office should finally take action against illegal casino providers and their managers. Oh no...they collect hundreds of millions of taxpayers' money...and tolerate this illegal gambling, while they condemn the small player for it.
This state is more than ridiculous.

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McFly02
Visitor

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

7th Apr. 2025, at 10:54 am CEST#171
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mikejonesmaen wrote on 16.03.2025 at 13:10: That's right, I live in Bavaria, but I decided to go for a lawyer who is very familiar with this. So there is the option of Frankfurt or Munich. The Frankfurters were simply faster. Now they are applying for access to the files, etc. I'm curious to see how long this will take.

Hello mikejonesmaen,


I also took the one from Frankfurt.
It's taking quite a long time, nothing has come yet since the objection in October.

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btssultan
Experienced

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

7th Apr. 2025, at 08:35 pm CEST#172
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fros7byte wrote on 24.03.2025 at 18:49: Nevertheless, this topic is and remains more than absurd. For 99% of players, there is nothing left to confiscate because the money has ended up back in the casino. So there was no enrichment and such a confiscation would (at the latest) lead every player to personal insolvency because money is confiscated that is not even there. Instead, the public prosecutor's office should finally take action against illegal casino providers and their managers. Oh no...they collect hundreds of millions of taxpayers' money...and tolerate this illegal gambling, while they condemn the small player for it.
This state is more than ridiculous.

It's just easier to prosecute the little guy than big companies that disguise themselves. This is also the reason why the GGL is taking action against the players and not against the dubious companies behind it.

I reported several apps in the PlayStore to the GGL months ago and Google only said that no changes would be made as long as there was no court order, even though it was quite clear that these were offers for unlicensed providers.

Has GGL done anything to date - NO! Google says that we only provide the platform, the content of third parties is none of our business.

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moralischverwerflich
Expert

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

8th Apr. 2025, at 07:22 am CEST#173
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btssultan wrote on 07.04.2025 at 20:35:
It's just easier to prosecute the little guy than big companies that disguise themselves. That's also the reason why the GGL is taking action against the players and not against the dubious companies behind them.

I reported several apps in the PlayStore to the GGL months ago, Google only said that as long as there is no court order, no change will take place, although it is quite clear that these are offers for unlicensed providers.

Has GGL done anything to date - NO! Google says that we only provide the platform, the content of third parties is none of our business.

Why do you report casinos to the GGL even though you yourself play in casinos that are not licensed in Germany?

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mikejonesmaen
Rookie

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

8th Apr. 2025, at 10:10 am CEST#174
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McFly02 wrote on 07.04.2025 at 10:54 am:

Hi mikejonesmaen,


I also took the one from Frankfurt.
It's taking quite a long time, nothing has come yet since the objection in October.

I finally decided on the other one, but both are supposed to be good. Everything is going very quickly for me; I've already been given access to the files. In the meantime, I know which period is involved and that the authority has only taken into account the payments and that there are no depositors in the criminal file. My homework is now to compile and organize all the depositors' receipts by the end of the month, as the investigating authority is allowed to deduct the deposits from the total profit.


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LikeAno
Visitor

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

8th Apr. 2025, at 10:40 am CEST#175
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mikejonesmaen wrote on 08/04/2025 10:10:

I finally decided in favor of the other one, but both are supposed to be good. Everything is going very quickly for me; the file inspection is already there. In the meantime, I know what period is involved and that the authority has actually only taken into account the disbursements and that there are no depositors in the criminal file. My homework is now to compile and organize all the depositors' receipts by the end of the month, as the investigating authority is allowed to deduct the deposits from the total profit.



That sounds quite promising at first if the depositors can really be deducted. Is your lawyer trying this approach or has he already closed a case in which he proceeded in this way and knows that it works?

In what form do you now compile the depositors, screenshot bank statements and compile them in an excel or something more complicated?

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frapi07
Elite

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

8th Apr. 2025, at 11:11 am CEST#176
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mikejonesmaen wrote on 08/04/2025 10:10:

I finally decided in favor of the other one, but both are supposed to be good. Everything is going very quickly for me; the file inspection is already there. In the meantime, I know what period is involved and that the authority has actually only taken into account the disbursements and that there are no depositors in the criminal file. My homework is now to compile and organize all the depositors' receipts by the end of the month, as the investigating authority is allowed to deduct the deposits from the total profit.



Did your lawyer tell you that? It would be interesting and a reliable source (at least) that depositors are also taken into account. Is that an estimate or a fact?

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Stromberg
Legend

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

8th Apr. 2025, at 11:41 am CEST#177
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frapi07 wrote on 08.04.2025 at 11:11 am:

Did your lawyer tell you that? Would be interesting and a (at least) reliable source that depositors are also taken into account. Is that an estimate or a fact?


"After hearing all parties involved and reviewing the Deposit and withdrawal receipts, we have come to the conclusion that the state must compensate the defendant for his casino losses in the amount of €20,000... 😄"

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mikejonesmaen
Rookie

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

8th Apr. 2025, at 11:51 am CEST#178
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frapi07 wrote on 08.04.2025 at 11:11 am:

Did your lawyer tell you that? Would be interesting and a (at least) reliable source that depositors are also taken into account. Is that an estimate or a fact?

He told me that by e-mail. So it's not my assessment.

I should try to obtain all possible Deposit receipts in the form of bank statements, casino screenshots, etc.

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frapi07
Elite

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

8th Apr. 2025, at 11:57 am CEST#179
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Stromberg wrote on 08.04.2025 at 11:41 am:


"After hearing all parties involved and reviewing the Deposit and withdrawal receipts, we have come to the conclusion that the state must compensate the defendant for his casino losses in the amount of €20,000... 😄"

That would be a dream

mikejonesmaen wrote on 08/04/2025 11:51:

That's what he told me via email. So it's not my assessment.

I should try to get all possible deposit receipts in the form of bank statements, casino screenshots, etc.

Nene, meant if it was his assessment or if he is sure the state will honor the depositors. Sorry, I expressed it too imprecisely

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mtorero
Amateur

Public prosecutor's office wants compensation for lost value.

8th Apr. 2025, at 12:24 pm CEST#180
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If you deposited with Paysafe and Neteller, you can submit a GDPR request there. They will then send you a list of all depositors up to 2021 (they didn't exist before that 😅)
Casinos with an EU license that are still active, such as Videoslots.com, can also send you a list of all deposits/withdrawals etc. (Except Lapalingo, because they allegedly did not exist before 2023)

What the Munich public prosecutor's office also fails to consider is that the larger the amount demanded, the greater the losses of the players concerned. Those already punished the worst are punished all the more. What is happening here is very sad.

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