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Online Casinos in general: Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos? (Page 3)

Topic created on 01st Jun. 2018 | Page: 3 of 58 | Answers: 573 | Views: 153,118
Anonym

Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos?

1st Jun. 2018, at 10:23 pm CEST#21
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Counter question... Do you have proof that there is no Manipulation / fraud sides of the casinos? I think that this is not possible... 0 transparency. Please no references to RTP etc., because that serves only theoretically the players who want to believe in the good. That the MGA not only neglects the Kontollen but deliberately does not pursue, is only a Klitze Kleiner indication that RTP Blablabla is a pure utopia. Proof that it does not go with right things, vlt not in all, but in many casinos, is the accumulated experience. I do not claim that nobody can win anything, but I claim that this depends on several factors and not on the "RTP". Coincidences know no patterns just as luck or bad luck... otherwise it would no longer be coincidences, lucky or unlucky streaks, but ice-cold calculations.

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Knochen
Elite

Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos?

1st Jun. 2018, at 10:32 pm CEST#22
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Samira wrote on 01.06.2018 at 22:23: Counter question... Do you have proof that there is no Manipulation / fraud sides of the casinos? Because I think that this is not possible at all... 0 transparency. Please no references to RTP etc., because that serves only theoretically the players who want to believe in the good. That the MGA not only neglects the Kontollen but deliberately does not pursue, is only a Klitze Kleiner indication that RTP Blablabla is a pure utopia. Proof that it does not go with right things, vlt not in all, but in many casinos, is the accumulated experience. I do not claim that nobody can win anything, but I claim that this depends on several factors and not on the "RTP". Coincidences know no patterns just as luck or bad luck... otherwise it would no longer be coincidences, lucky or unlucky streaks, but ice-cold calculations.

The RTP is really the most transparent thing there can be. Not even if the casino would want it could hide your RTP. At many casinos you can look in the profile itself, if not you could also simply count yourself. The RTP is totally transparent and comes after my experience approximately.

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Anonym

Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos?

1st Jun. 2018, at 10:44 pm CEST#23
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Knochen wrote on 01.06.2018 at 22:32
The RTP is really the most transparent thing there can be. Not even if the casino would want it could hide your RTP. At many casinos you can look in the profile itself, if not you could also simply count yourself. The RTP is totally transparent and comes after my experience approximately.

It is also. You just have to know what it means. Some do not see that.

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T****3

Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos?

1st Jun. 2018, at 11:07 pm CEST#24
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Knochen wrote on 01.06.2018 at 22:32
The RTP is really the most transparent thing there can be. Not even if the casino would want it could hide your RTP. At many casinos you can look in the profile itself, if not you could also simply count yourself. The RTP is totally transparent and comes after my experience approximately.

Why not?
Who checks whether the RTP is correct and over what period of time must this be measured?
1 week? 1 month? 1 year?

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Anonym

Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos?

1st Jun. 2018, at 11:12 pm CEST#25
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TFinke3 wrote on 01/06/2018 at 23:07
Why not?
Who checks if the RTP is correct and over what period of time does it have to be measured?
1 week? 1 month? 1 year?

For every single spin


To understand, the RTP is simply the house edge of the casino. Every casino game has a house edge.
I think that is also clear to everyone.

But the RTP says neither that there is no cheating nor that there is cheating.
If I play Blackjack in a casino then I know that the bank has an advantage.
But if they zinken the cards then I will be cheated.
Therefore - whether cheating takes place or not has absolutely nothing to do with the completely logical house advantage.

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Anonym

Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos?

1st Jun. 2018, at 11:13 pm CEST#26
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It may well be true that my RTP can be explained to me, but what I mean by that is something else. Who can assure me that it also works the way it has to work? Therein lie ultimately my doubts... that everything can be controlled. One considers, that technically everything is possible.

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Anonym

Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos?

1st Jun. 2018, at 11:22 pm CEST#27
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Samira wrote on 01.06.2018 at 23:13: May well be true that you can explain my RTP, but what I mean is something else. Who can assure me that it works as it should? In the end, this is where my doubts lie... that everything can be controlled. One considers, that technically everything is possible.

That was also meant with my post. Therefore, when philosophizing about possible fraud, then it is counterproductive to discuss about the RTP and to lead this constantly as evidence souusagen in the field, because this says as good as nothing and can neither be pro fraud argument nor negate it.

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Knochen
Elite

Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos?

1st Jun. 2018, at 11:23 pm CEST#28
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Technically, it would even be very easy to do. The RTP is just the math behind the slot. Sure, you could program the payouts lower and just write something else. But I have serious doubts about it.

The game manufacturers like Netent and co earn from license fees. The more players play their games, the more they earn. That means they have a primary interest in providing the most appealing slot possible. The competition is big and growing. No manufacturer could suddenly launch a slot with a theoretical RTP of 80%, the company would not earn anything from it and the development costs are certainly not low either. The casinos would theoretically have an interest in earning more money, I think no one denies that. But the casinos have no influence on the game. At least there is no proof for it and in my opinion no serious evidence. In such a fraud case would be inevitably very many people involved. Employees of the casinos, the manufacturers, the programmers, the authorities and so on. And yet there are not really statements? The industry regulates itself by the fact that the games are not hosted by the casino, but the manufacturers have an interest that their slot stands out from the others or is competitive.

I have checked my RTP very often and also made very often experiments with play money and I can say that in the long run it is already there. But this 4% per spin is steep. The good old "heads or tails" game has an RTP of 100%. The RTP also doesn't give any probability of winning at all actually. If you run 100 spins on 1€ bet with play money, the RTP can be explained very easily. Roughly speaking: 9/10 times it oscillates somewhere between 30% and 80% and once it has maybe 200%.

Who gets free spins on 1€ bet and makes a win of 13.50€ likes to get upset but in fact he had a RTP of 1350% although the average probability is only 95%.

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Anonym

Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos?

1st Jun. 2018, at 11:37 pm CEST#29
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Bone wrote on 01/06/2018 at 23:23: Technically, it would even be very easy. The RTP is just the math behind the slot. Sure you could program the payouts lower and just put something else there. I have serious doubts about it though.

The game manufacturers like Netent and co earn from license fees. The more players play their games, the more they earn. This means that they have a primary interest in providing the most appealing slot possible. The competition is big and growing. No manufacturer could suddenly launch a slot with a theoretical RTP of 80%, the company would not earn anything from it and the development costs are certainly not low either. The casinos would theoretically have an interest in earning more money, I think no one denies that. But the casinos have no influence on the game. At least there is no proof for it and in my opinion no serious evidence. In such a fraud case would be inevitably very many people involved. Employees of the casinos, the manufacturers, the programmers, the authorities and so on. And yet there are not really statements? The industry regulates itself by the fact that the games are not hosted by the casino, but the manufacturers have an interest that their slot stands out from the others or is competitive.


That, in turn, is also not true.

You could theoretically manipulate the game but still reach the RTP of 96%. So you wouldn't have to lower the RTP.

And if that's the case, there aren't nearly as many people involved as you might think.

I'll give you an example:


If the company Novomatic develops a new game, Slot machine, slot then there are many different developers and teams involved.
And each individual team has no direct insight into what the others are doing and each is only responsible for a certain part. Even the programmers are divided into different teams. The reason for this is quite simple: In the past, there were indeed some machines that had a trick built in, mostly a special key combination. These were built in by the programmers in order to make money in the long term, of course, until at some point players also came up with it.
Since then, everything is so secured and developed separately from each other that many independently tinker with something that then results in the end of the new game.

So only very few people would be privy to it. And even if one of it wants to puplizieren, where would he make that then?
On the Internet? He would be labeled as a weirdo anyway.
In the newspaper? That would have to be printed first, but he would need verifiable proof. The company will make sure that not every employee can go home with sensitive data.

It is actually quite simple to put it in a nutshell. you can never rule it out 100%. But you can't prove it either.
No matter how long we discuss it here, it remains speculation.

You just have to form your own opinion and draw the consequences if necessary.

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Anonym

Is there evidence of fraud in online casinos?

1st Jun. 2018, at 11:52 pm CEST#30
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LABoy90 has asked for proof. No one here has provided any proof yet. Neither in this, nor in any of the other 10,000 threads on the subject. To all those who feel so passionately cheated: Show me the airtight evidence! Documents, code, anything. Or introduce us to a credible insider/whistleblower who can give substance to your speculations. And please don't let the aluhütler hang out by simply reversing the burden of proof. In our legal system, no one has to prove innocence. The accusers have to prove guilt. So, where is the evidence?

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