I have a big hunch...

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P****R

Forum posts: 242 Member has been banned

23rd Nov. 2018, at 08:26 am CET#51

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Latino wrote on 23.11.2018 at 00:06: @Strolch
Just now I watched a Streamer playing Lightning Roulette and wondered why the kettle is spinning even though no one is pushing or how suddenly the ball enters the kettle - looks like a video sequence to me. Manipulable ? Definitely - without wanting to imply an actual Manipulation! Demonstrable ? Rather not ...

Stop!
At this point, one must clearly differentiate. Because Auto-Roulette and Lightning-Roulette have nothing to do with Liveroulette.
Those who play games where the result is determined by a programmed Random Number Generator should do so. But there are other games in casinos and online casinos.

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C****7

Forum posts: 223 Member has been banned

I have a big hunch...

23rd Nov. 2018, at 09:34 am CET#52

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Only the question arises, if with a live Roulette with extreme reality reference, with which a Gamer assumes that here really almost cannot be manipulated, with more simply manipulable Games such as auto roulette and Slots should think? Naive to think that complex manipulable games are tricked and simple manipulable ones are not. There is a certain causal relationship.

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Rookie

Strolch

Forum posts: 77 Member since: 18.11.2018

I have a big hunch...

23rd Nov. 2018, at 10:58 am CET#53

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Ichbins2018 wrote on 11/22/2018 at 11:27 PM
@Strolch, now put that one day the scam comes true, would that then in reverse mean you are Stupid?

I wouldn't care about that then either. I do not play so that I become rich. I play because it's fun, with a limited monthly budget, as I wrote before, I check off my stake directly in the course of the deposit. If I come over threshold X, I let pay out and do not cancel, with Deposit limit I can then also not shoot directly.

And somewhere I have, like everyone else, the small hope of a jackpot....

Besides address data, please organize bank accounts along with statements, utility bills, hardware and phone numbers. Of course, also provide the appropriate access data and pins / tans - and voila your environment is considering a forced admission.

Otherwise great post besides the rich arguments I also find the polite tone remarkable

Not every withdrawal needs a Verification, but from 1K but also worth the certain effort.... There are already people who let the elderly in the retirement home wring signatures for Kinkerlitz like the preservation of a tree on road XY.... Everything a question of the point of view. But all hypothetical.

You and others who always think that the skeptics in the matter of OCs are some cranks with Aluhut, should once be aware that all your information about Online Casinos / online gambling come exclusively from the casinos and the game operators themselves.

All info sites like GambleJoe, Askgamblers, Casinomeister and what they are all called, ONLY know what the OCs and game operators themselves give out in terms of info.

Yes, and there are no serious statements that the OC manipulate, just from shady streamers or spinners or frustrated, who have just let through again 1000€, because something must come sometime. Or have I missed something? It's not like I wouldn't believe it if I saw it. You experts strictly there at conspiracy theories, for which capable people are needed. To put it bluntly, as you like to do, there were leaks even from the NSA, and the most powerful state in the world is after the ex-employees, not some online cabal...

@Latono: I have explained and proven to you in the previous posts that unmistakable evidence is available and partly shown with video sequences and that Manipulation is taking place. Even a small child recognizes that there is trickery. What in God's name makes you think that it is not provable?

Serious casino? Backyard Provider? I think it's clear that the statement "manipulation is unlikely" is aimed at the reputable providers and not at every eventuality.
If you bring something like that to bwin, Mr Green or similar supposed reputable and big casinos whatever, then you can talk about it and would have the consequence for me that I immediately stop

--&gt
The whole discussion shows but only how "problematic" you play. Behind every blade of grass smell the conspiracy but still throw the money into the throat of the casinos.

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C****7

Forum posts: 223 Member has been banned

I have a big hunch...

23rd Nov. 2018, at 11:31 am CET#54

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@Strolch: When it rains and you get wet you think that's sweat too?

Sorry, every toddler sees how manipulated, and you talk about conspiracy theories.... do you make on ostrich?

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K****t

Forum posts: 688 Member has been banned

I have a big hunch...

23rd Nov. 2018, at 12:17 pm CET#55

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Scamp wrote on 11/23/2018 at 10:58 AM

Yes, and there are no serious statements that the OC manipulate, just only from dodgy streamers or spinners or frustrated, who just let through again 1000€, because something must come sometime. Or have I missed something? It's not like I wouldn't believe it if I saw it. You experts strictly there to conspiracy theories, for which capable people are needed. To make it more striking, as you like to do: Even at the NSA there were leaks and there the most powerful state on earth is then after the ex-employees and not some online kabuffs...

Is that why you believe every word of both casinos and gaming operators because nothing "leaks"?
That would be a very weak argument.
Behind huge companies/institutions that hid scandals for years, sometimes decades, were completely different people trying to uncover something
Not gamblers who gamble in casinos. And yet it took a long time and a lot of effort to get to the bottom of them.
In the case of others, scandals have been kept secret for years despite information from their own ranks or through exposure. One example of this is the NSU scandal.
Who really cares whether everything is running smoothly in OCs? No one.
All the inconsistencies that have already been recorded and documented came from players, and all of them have come to nothing.
See also the latest example with the two streamers who had identical winning pictures at Jamming Jars.
No one cares anymore. Even the game manufacturer has ruled out such a coincidence, and yet users always make sure to downplay everything and portray skeptics as crackpots.
It makes you wonder why...

Do you have credible information, any facts that Manipulation is not or cannot be done?
No.
You have only the statement of the casinos themselves.

Most players who assume that manipulation is taking place, gather circumstantial evidence based on their experience and experiences
Opponents, on the other hand, just parrot what the OCs pretend.
No one can definitively prove how things actually work, and that means that even those who call others conspiracy theorists can't just keep throwing these unsubstantiated claims around without any argument.
There is not a single argument from you that is even remotely convincing that money machines like OCs licensed in Malta, Curacao and elsewhere or gaming operators are not manipulating.
There is already more evidence from the skeptics than there are credible counter-arguments.

It does not mean that every casino cheats or manipulates.
But to generally exclude fraud/manipulation because the OCs themselves say so is more than naive.

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Elite

Julian

GambleJoe-Teamverified

Forum posts: 2.753 Member since: 11.06.2016

I have a big hunch...

23rd Nov. 2018, at 12:24 pm CET#56

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Before the discussion escalates again I would like to ask you in advance to show some respect towards other users.

Feel free to discuss this topic but please refrain from any insults or anything else.
This topic is very controversial and therefore it is quite normal that not every opinion is shared here.

Try to respect the views or opinions of other users and not to become directly personal.

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K****t

Forum posts: 688 Member has been banned

I have a big hunch...

23rd Nov. 2018, at 02:04 pm CET#57

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Random wrote on 11/23/2018 at 03:42 PM
That is correct.

But at its core, this discussion is also pointless.
For one very crucial reason:
Let's assume that everything is completely random and the information of the casinos and game manufacturers are correct. It is and remains a perfidious system in which we will lose everything in the end. The addiction would anyway bring the money back to the casinos and the mathematical advantage will strike in the long run. Whether the casinos prevent higher wins and thus have a lower Risk (could be that all winners Deposit in another casino) and can show a better business balance is completely secondary.

I have been a gambler myself for so long and have been dealing with gamblers for so long that this is absolutely certain. No player keeps his money. It's just borrowed money that stays with you. It goes back into the casinos. The bottom line is that you only work for the casinos. You give it to them.
Whether manipulated or not, you never have a chance. The biggest enemy is oneself.
And the same as here in the OnlineCasinos applies is also with the Livegame so. Also there everybody only loses. A ridiculous daily win of a few hundred can never make up for the damage you've already done.
It's not just the money, it's the friends, the social environment, the quality of life and the self-confidence that you take away.
Gambling dominates you. You don't really take part in life anymore, it's all about a few stupid pictures. You think it's about winning, but if you're honest, it's all about losing.

Therefore it is completely unimportant whether Manipulation takes place or not. What difference does it make?

Yes, unfortunately it is exactly the same for too many.
I am in the fortunate position of being able to pull the lever at any time. Since I'm not an addict, I have no problems with that.

However, it annoys me to no end when rip-offs are practiced, that doesn't have to affect me at all. It is enough if others are affected. I hate such things like the plague.
That's why it's important whether there is manipulation or not.
Even if players throw the money back in, it is always healthier to have a sense of achievement than to be ripped off and possibly break
Moreover, if manipulation is taking place, operators do not deserve to take a healthy poke at the suffering of others

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C****7

Forum posts: 223 Member has been banned

I have a big hunch...

23rd Nov. 2018, at 02:21 pm CET#58

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@ Kaffelicht: Well roared lion, what do you think about my proof films of the manipulations in live Roulette?

If more and even clearer proof films are desired, I will gladly post them here.

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Experienced

Latino

Forum posts: 303 Member since: 08.11.2018

I have a big hunch...

23rd Nov. 2018, at 02:58 pm CET#59

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@coffeelight

One of the few who can take a vague look behind the matter is Latino

You can also and I attach great importance to the fact that everyone forms his own opinion instead of unreflected to take over the opinion of others and also (critsch) to question - of course, this also applies to my contributions.

@Random

But in essence, this discussion is also pointless.

Not for me, so I get a look at the view of others. Without discussion and also criticism this feedback would not exist.

Therefore, it is completely unimportant whether Manipulation takes place or not. What difference does it make?

If software manipulation could be proven, it would be a disaster for OCs, because especially with (a lot of) money, trust is one of the supporting pillars.
But manipulation doesn't have to mean that the customer is deceived, for me manipulation already takes place if e.g. the RTP is dynamic.

@Champion280667

@Latono: I have explained to you in the previous posts and proved that unmistakable evidence is available and partly shown with video sequences and that manipulation is taking place. Even a small child recognizes that there is trickery. What in God's name makes you think that it is not provable?

That was perhaps somewhat misleading, my statement referred to the video Roulette called "Lightning Roulette" and only on it! Sorry if it did not come across so clearly.
Gladly I would look at other videos - gladly also by PN since I am interested in principle for such videos.

@PAYSAFEMASTER

Stop!

At this point you have to differentiate clearly.

Yes I thought so - I don't play roulette myself and rarely follow it in streams. Thanks for the hint.

@Strolch

Not every payout needs a Verification, but from 1K but also the certain effort is worth it.... There are already people who let the old people in the nursing home signatures for Kinkerlitz like the preservation of a tree on street XY.... Everything a question of the point of view. But all hypothetical.

It is not only a question of the expenditure but also of the difficulty actually a number of accounts in the larger extent to be able to provide which are able finally also to the disbursement. Even if one had the criminal energy to wrest data from old people in old people's homes, they would share a residence and there the usual problems would start again. If these hurdles would not be given, this had certainly already tried some and with the terms of use, this is prevented by the OCs. It is not quite trivial after all...

Yes, and there are no serious statements that the OC manipulate, just only from dubious streamers or spinners or frustrated, who have just let through again 1000€, because something must come sometime.

There are also no serious statements that OCs do not manipulate. Otherwise, this comes only from spinners or frustrated ? I like to be convinced that OCs do not manipulate ! Then start or are you only right because you are the one who claims this ? You can not be serious ...

I'm not frustrated at all and it would never occur to me to "let through" 1000€ - well, maybe in 3-6 months. Streamer I am also not - remains only the spinner. I can live with that - but what happens if I do the same the other way around and question your motives why you so eagerly defend the supposed seriousness of the OCs ? I experience it not seldom that it is ultimately selfish interests, however this may look
Maybe you are a "serious" streamer who defends his source of income, but unlike you, I would not just say that and label everyone who disagrees as a nutcase, etc..

your experts strictly there at conspiracy theories, for which capable people are needed.

What makes my/our theory a conspiracy theory ? Why are the things you claim not a conspiracy theory? What makes you think that people who think about it are not "capable"?

In order to make it striking, as you like to do it: Even at the NSA there were leaks and the most powerful state on earth is then after the ex-employees and not some online kabuff...

And what do you do with the leakers - who, as you know, do not spread conspiracy theories but the truth ? They are defamed, slandered and/or imprisoned. Except for the imprisonment - is that familiar to you? If not, read your posts again, I'm sure you notice something in the context

The whole discussion shows only how "problematic" you play.

I find that totally funny, because I play exactly as you described it above always controlled, always with limit (is one of the first things I set in OC), always the deposited money as a loss booked before playing, never gambled more in the month than what is worth with the fun and certainly not if it would jeopardize my monthly obligations, plus in the case of profit always a part in the cashout that is never canceled - can I now claim that you play just as problematic ? Why am then only I the spinner if we in the game nothing differs ?

@All
I would ask you to be a little more relaxed with insults and especially to refrain from retorting. It (sounds funny now) is more fun not to get involved in a verbal conflict of the lowest drawer but to question it. Mostly it is so that the insulting either completely derails, withdraws and/or makes itself untrustworthy.

Edit:Typo

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K****t

Forum posts: 688 Member has been banned

I have a big hunch...

23rd Nov. 2018, at 03:15 pm CET#60

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Champion280667 wrote on 11/23/2018 at 2:21 pm: @ Kaffelicht: Well roared Lion, what do you think about my proof films of manipulations in live Roulette?

If more and even clearer proof films are desired, I will be happy to post them here.

I am absolutely not familiar with roulette in OCs. I have no possibility to compare because I never play live games.
The second video with the manipulated ball unfortunately does not say whether OCs actually use such balls. However, it would not surprise me at all.
I also think that live gaming can and probably will be manipulated in the same way as slots.

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