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Online Casinos in general: Gambling fees VISA (Page 4)

Topic created on 16th Apr. 2018 | Page: 4 of 5 | Answers: 48 | Views: 21,216
Begbie
Elite

Gambling fees VISA

5th Sep. 2018, at 12:03 pm CEST#31
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banks are in my eyes an institution where you don't have to have a bad conscience to fleece them. as long as you have the right on your side. who cares?!
other such institutions would be e.g. Insurance companies or the state.

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s****e

Gambling fees VISA

5th Sep. 2018, at 12:07 pm CEST#32
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you have not quite understood the meaning of my statement
You can, if it stinks to the courts, also violently pour yourself a
pour one for yourself. And then?

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Stromberg
Legend

Gambling fees VISA

5th Sep. 2018, at 12:37 pm CEST#33
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Actually, the logical consequence of this ruling would be that credit card payments or other ways in which a bank is involved, are no longer possible.
Also, the question would arise, what about withdrawals to the account?...

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Newcomer
Rookie

Gambling fees VISA

5th Sep. 2018, at 12:40 pm CEST#34
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It is tempting after losses to claim that gambling is prohibited in Germany. The question is always what results from this.

Even if you can sometimes reclaim stakes, what blooms you yourself? I mean one has finally taken a service in claim.

Tempting, yes, that would also irritate me, just because I see these losses often as a total joke. You don't see any more wins. Because of the random generator. Sometimes I think, it already IP depending on what you win.

The experience of people who successfully complain or get money back would really interest me.

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s****e

Gambling fees VISA

5th Sep. 2018, at 12:57 pm CEST#35
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So far, these have probably been isolated cases, which is why the judiciary remains silent. But if every miller
comes and wants his money back, the courts will eventually start to point out
that gambling is illegal in Germany, and that one has made oneself a criminal offence
made punishable.

So far, no action has been taken. But that can change quickly, if one complaint after the other comes
after the other comes, and the people want to have their money back.

I also don't share Daniel's opinion that this is a gray area. As long as this is anchored in the StGB
is enshrined, this legislation counts. Although this can be passed on for examination to the ECJ
or after a conviction, a player could turn to the ECJ, but this is not the case
ECJ, but this is time-consuming and certainly costly.

And as long as no Player protection can be granted in Germany, which as a
Precondition cited by the ECJ for gambling to become legal in Germany,
it remains illegal, and not a gray area.

This is similar to the fact that smoking Pot is tolerated, does not mean that it is a gray area.
You can also be reported for having a joint. Whether it will be prosecuted by the prosecutor
prosecuted or brought to court is a completely different matter. The fact is, there is no
fixed free quantity, therefore even the smallest amounts are punishable.
There are allowances that are defined by the various federal states.
But this is a rough guideline, not a law, and therefore no one can rely on it
rely on it or refer to it.

The same with gambling. It may be tolerated, but I would not rely on it
especially not when people start to get their money back more and more
to get their money back. There are definitely 2 sides to this coin.

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Anonym

Gambling fees VISA

5th Sep. 2018, at 01:16 pm CEST#36
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The bottom line is that PayPal is also liable to prosecution and you could get your deposits back or is that different?

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s****e

Gambling fees VISA

5th Sep. 2018, at 01:27 pm CEST#37
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Correct! Problem is however that you have made yourself also punishable.
If in individual cases times money is fetched back, probably nobody will make what.

But if people start to reclaim money on a large scale, in principle from criminal acts,
the justice system will probably have to react at some point.
Either it will then be legalized to counteract the dilemma, or it will remain
banned, and the judiciary will start to crack down.


Or all PayPal or credit card Deposit methods will be cancelled.
Then there will only be Sofortüberweisung or similar deposit methods.

But even there, you could actually claim your money back.
There is actually no deposit method, where this purely theoretically not
would not work, because the reason is always the same

So it's a big dilemma.
Either the judiciary will intervene at some point, since gambling is illegal,
or the Online Casinos would have to force their way out of
Germany.
Unless they can cope with the chargebacks financially.
But as I said, we're talking about large-scale chargebacks here, not individual cases.

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Daniel
Elite

Gambling fees VISA

5th Sep. 2018, at 01:59 pm CEST#38
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stkrie wrote on 05.09.2018 at 12:57 pm: So far it was probably isolated cases, that's why the judiciary is silent. But if every miller
comes, and wants his money back, the courts will eventually start to
point out that gambling is illegal in Germany, and you have made yourself
made punishable.

Right, banks are systemically relevant, we are not. I mean it doesn't affect the Online Casinos, but only the banks and if it gets too heavy for the banks, then all gamblers would rather stand in court and be punished for life or the death penalty would be reintroduced for it, than that an important bank suffers too big losses. So I can't imagine that the chargeback will remain completely without consequences. In the best-case scenario, you'll end up on some Blacklist and wonder why you can't get a loan despite your good credit rating.


Morally, I personally see it like this: As an adult, you are responsible for yourself at the end of the day. There is a range of Games of chance (state-run casinos, gambling houses, Slot machines everywhere and online casinos) and you take advantage of them. One can win and one can lose. It is in the nature of gambling that one loses at the latest in the long term. One has taken the service gambling and was aware of the Risk at any time. I think if one is honest with oneself, then in most cases it is probably the case that if one had not gambled away the money in "illegal" online casinos, one would have left it with equivalent service providers (casinos) or inferior service providers such as gambling houses. And there would be no chance to get your money back.

You also have to ask yourself the following questions:

1. What do you do with the returned money? Possibly pay debts or would this money not go to a large extent back into the online casinos or other gambling?

2. Won't the returned amount (or more) be invested in gambling again in the foreseeable future? If so, what was the point of the chargeback?

I mean these questions must be asked and possibly explained to a judge, if it should come to a court case. From the point of view of a normal citizen or a judge, I would assume that the player who booked the money back simply acted out of criminal greed and is not a victim. He is not a victim anyway because, probably in most cases, he has not even actively fought his gambling addiction. By active, I mean he has taken therapies and other measures.

If you take the risk and charge back the money, you should, in my opinion, also actively and demonstrably work on your problems at the same time, otherwise the whole thing makes no sense in the end anyway and the whole thing is only a risk and not an opportunity in the long run.

I also don't share Daniel's opinion that this is a gray area. As long as this is anchored in the StGB
is anchored, this legislation counts. Although this can be passed on for examination to the ECJ
or after a conviction a player could turn to the European Court of Justice
ECJ, but this is time-consuming and certainly costly.

And as long as no Player protection can be granted in Germany, which as a
ECJ is cited as a prerequisite for gambling to become legal in Germany,
it remains illegal, and not a gray area.

This is similar to the fact that smoking Pot is tolerated, does not mean that it is a gray area.
One can also be reported for having a joint. Whether it will be prosecuted by the prosecutor
prosecuted or brought to court is a completely different matter. The fact is, there is no
fixed free quantity, therefore even the smallest amounts are punishable.
There are allowances that are defined by the various federal states.
But this is a rough guideline, not a law, and therefore no one can rely on it
rely on it.

The same with gambling. It may be tolerated, but I would not rely on it
especially when people start to take their money back more and more
their money back. There are definitely 2 sides to this coin.

Weed belongs to be legalized/regulated in my opinion as well, because at the end of the day, prohibition does nothing. Unlike online casinos, cannabis is banned in all European countries (also in Holland). The state also does not run coffeeshops itself and forbids private companies to open coffeeshops. And the possession of weed is punished in Germany. Proceedings are usually dropped for small amounts, but people are still prosecuted and often face driver's license revocation (even if the case is dropped).


There is also no case in which a cannabis user was convicted in the first instance and acquitted in the second instance, although cannabis possession was proven beyond doubt. In the area of online gambling, however, this is exactly what has happened, and no player has been charged or convicted since this ruling.

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s****e

Gambling fees VISA

5th Sep. 2018, at 02:14 pm CEST#39
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Most gamblers, and we both know it, can't really afford to do that.
There is no need to look for moral reasons. Chargeback is the smallest
smallest problem. I don't think that a real gambler thinks about it

Even if you make fun of it, I would not reject it so from the hand,
that the judiciary will take action. Finally Finazdienstleister have all
mastercard and Co have a not insignificant lobby, in the end there is a bank
behind it, and there the German state reacts extremely empflindlich. The state is forced to
to intervene when chargebacks get out of hand, which is almost logical?
He has with crimes not the Oppurtunitäsprinzip, so it should be reported times, must be
this offense must first be prosecuted, regardless of what the judiciary makes of it. From therefore it can
for the one or the other stupid run, even if you represent the funny.

But you're right, the casinos already have their money, so it affects the financial service providers!
A thinking error on my part.

I also think that weed should be legalized, since the personnel expenditure, no matter whether justice or
Police is not in the relation to the crime.
But it was only about the comparison, not whether that is now meaningful or not.

So far, there is no major unrest, as far as chargebacks are concerned. It happens one at a time,
and it's being swallowed. But if it gets out of hand, something has to happen. Bad
Schufa would still be the gringste, think that have some who gamble. But whether you then continue
the gambling ban can ignore, is the other thing.

Probably there is rather sometime a kind of central data file, where all transactions that have been
that have been carried out online are registered. If there is ever an intentional chargeback, it will be difficult to
it will be difficult to pay for something online in the future
Or the financial service providers will no longer support any Online Casinos in the future.

Of course you have a problem if you make a chargeback.
But probably they will have even bigger problems if they don't
charge back!

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dnight
Rookie

Gambling fees VISA

5th Sep. 2018, at 02:27 pm CEST#40
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i just received a refund of almost 180 euros in fees from diba without comment. No idea why? Is there anyone else like that or has there been a corresponding ruling in the meantime?

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