Online Casinos in general: Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB) (Page 49)
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Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)
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Yes, the Bavarians are Bavarians, we all know that.
Just for me, for classification, why does everyone here advise you to put a cross in the box that you're not making a statement?
I mean honestly, you are not obliged to make a statement to them and you are also not obliged to respond to this hearing form, I must confess I have already received a few letters and NEVER answered these forms, why should I?
My thought is and has always been: I see nothing, I don't hear anything and I don't say anything, why should I say that I say nothing and thus signal my "willingness" to cooperate with them even minimally and to strive for any solutions & possibly to speed up the proceedings ? Then a letter is sent to the public prosecutor's office with the reply form, and of course they then recognize the willingness to compromise and a letter is sent with the discontinuation in exchange for a fine and, more recently, also the letter with the seizure of the instrument of the crime/confiscation of the resulting funds (money).
I think of it like this: you ignore the letter, if they really had something tangible in their hands, a second letter should be sent if necessary (with a certificate of delivery - registered letter).
Has anyone received a letter stating that the proceedings have been discontinued WITHOUT responding to anything, or a letter stating that the proceedings have been discontinued WITHOUT responding to the reply form?
If you receive an AZ and proceedings are opened, only then would I contact a lawyer and turn it around so that there are two scenarios (to be selected depending on what the lawyer thinks is better):
Scenario one:
You registered regularly where the market was NOT yet regulated, and you closed your betting account there on the day listed, or it was closed and the funds were transferred, you did not know that there was still money there or that it was transferred.
Scenario two:
You don't even know what it's all about, you never deposited there let alone gambled etc. Someone could have registered there with my data, and you had no knowledge of it yourself, no knowledge of the matter at all anyway because you would only play in legal booths, since the public prosecutor's office certainly does not receive any support from the operators, they would have to prove that you had actively deposited and played there.
You can only do that if:
a) the casino cooperates with them and provides the necessary data.
b) the bank has the data and provides it (which is usually not the case, as it is ALWAYS exclusively about PAYMENTS), and the necessary deposits are never listed.
c) The "perpetrator" admits and confesses to everything and agrees to the cessation.
Everyone can imagine for themselves how likely these scenarios are; as far as I know, no one has taken the chance yet, but this is how I would react.
These are just my personal thoughts on the matter and how I would react and argue.
PS: My criminal record is clean and it's been 15 years since they last wiped it, but the legal situation shouldn't have changed.
Addendum: it has become a lot longer than I thought but I hope it is reasonably organized, readable and you can understand my thoughts on it 🙂
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Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)
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Honestly, no one will buy this "I didn't know anything and never played there", especially because there usually have to have been transactions in advance for a complaint to be made and the core is often money laundering. That leaves you with two options:
The problem is not even what you tell them, but what you can prove.
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Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)
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Well you misunderstand me, you signed up BEFORE regulation where there was still a gray area, you didn't access it after.
To 1. maybe I have become a victim of identity theft, as long as they have no IP address from which the violation originated or a depositor that was made AFTER the regulation, they can only prove that there is/was a payout there and then, which is no proof.
For example, you can register with Jackpotpiraten/Bingbong, data comparison with Schufa, and you are verified and could theoretically make withdrawals from No Deposit, and it is not necessarily the case that you have created this account yourself, if you still have the person's IBAN, you can then make withdrawals to the account and the person will only find out after the account has been credited.
Before the regulation, it was also possible to make withdrawals at bwin, for example, which were NOT made to the account of the account holder, why shouldn't it have been the same with illegal casinos?
And no, it doesn't automatically mean that it stems from money laundering, thank goodness the burden of proof has not yet been reversed, they are just trying to stop it in exchange for a fine because the whole proof/evidence is very shaky.
You tick the box that you are not providing any information, you show that you are interested in a solution, and then you get the notice of suspension in exchange for a fine. If they could prove something, then they would take their chances, I mean, there were/are even cessations for drug possession due to personal use/minority.
Shoplifting also up to the sum of xx as you read, actually for everything apart from more serious matters such as conviction, convicted conviction etc.
These are all petty offenses, and suspicion of money laundering in combination with the expected penalty is of course very threatening.
As far as I know, no one has ever taken the Risk so far, which is why we're both just guessing 🙂
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Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)
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I also didn't have to prove that I didn't initiate it, which would be even nicer, and I never received any invoice or reminder for it and don't know who it was. It's not identical, but the situation is similar.
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Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)
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Supplement to 1:
But there must have been transactions (depositors) beforehand, but as far as I could read, these are not listed anywhere in the "chain of evidence" after inspection of the files, unless they are available, I don't see any legal action on the part of the state, you could Deposit anywhere via Paysafe in the past, there was no Paysafecard account yet, how the hell do they want to prove anything? Unless you deposited via bank transfer, of course we assume that the casino doesn't work with them, which I consider to be relatively certain.
Sorry couldn't edit my previous post.
Another scenario would be that they/you have closed your account and they simply transferred your remaining balance to the account from which deposits were made in 2011, since it is explicitly forbidden you have done nothing more on these sites. Without the casino's involvement, they can't really clear it up.
At least in my layman's opinion, we all haven't studied law I suppose.
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Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)
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i also received a letter yesterday. I only play at LocoWin.
I wrote to the support team at... and they said that this was news to them and that it was OK to play if you live in Germany.
On some sites I read LocoWin is illegal on some other sites ...it is legal.
I found out about a whitelist yesterday through your posts here.
I'll call my lawyer straight away.
Summons is for 14.11.2024.
Period: June 2023 to Sept 2024.
I've lost more than I've won. And played every day.
I hope that it stays with a warning.
Because I didn't bother with the German license.
Yes, I know ... my fault too. But I've had the account since 2019.
Back then I had a player account elsewhere. And they informed me at some point ..,
that my player account was being terminated...because they no longer had any licenses.
I never received anything like that from LocoWin... of course the terms and conditions were constantly being changed.
But when I asked the really friendly support team, I was always told that there were no major changes for me.
So I left it at that.
Yes, it's my own fault. I know.
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Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)
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It doesn't matter if you've lost more than you've won. For me, only the payouts count. LocoWin has never been legal. I hope you didn't pay out too much.
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Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)
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Is there any news about your history? Have you heard anything from the public prosecutor's office? Unfortunately I can't write to you privately as there are still too few posts in the forum.
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Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)
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I contacted the lawyer and she said the file still hasn't arrived and that's normal at the moment. So keep waiting, my friend who tried to stop it for a fine is also still waiting for an answer.
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Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)
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But when e should it be possible to pay for the vast majority if only withdrawals but no depositors are charged. The vast majority of people who play regularly have no savings at all. The only option would be to do community service, take out a loan or serve time in prison. The latter would cost the state the most. And taking out a loan for that reason, can the state really force you to do so, would that be allowed in a constitutional state, considering the consequences for these people?
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