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Online Casinos in general: Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB) (Page 100)

Topic created on 23rd Jan. 2021 | Page: 100 of 105 | Answers: 1,044 | Views: 263,380
Zockerbernd
Amateur

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

2nd Apr. 2025, at 01:54 pm CEST#995
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Why don't you just say that you played abroad, your IP addresses don't come from illegal casinos anyway, and that's the end of the matter.

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frapi07
Elite

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

2nd Apr. 2025, at 01:59 pm CEST#996
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Zockerbernd wrote on 02.04.2025 at 13:54: Why don't you actually say that you played abroad, you don't have your IP addresses from the illegal casinos anyway, and the issue is over.

I'm not a judge, but I wouldn't like this argument, since it's about payouts to domestic bank accounts.

It certainly wouldn't be a problem in a brick-and-mortar casino and it doesn't break any rules (e.g. if you go to the Czech Republic, gamble there and receive your wins in cash), but it's certainly different online.

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Zockerbernd
Amateur

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

2nd Apr. 2025, at 03:42 pm CEST#997
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It doesn't matter where my account is, it can be in Africa or on the moon, what matters is where I play or from where.

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frapi07
Elite

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

2nd Apr. 2025, at 04:20 pm CEST#998
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Zockerbernd wrote on 02.04.2025 at 15:42: It doesn't matter where my account is, it can be in Africa or on the moon, what matters is where I play or from where.


Well... if you have your bank account in Germany, then you have to abide by the German laws and one of many laws states that income from illegal gambling is prohibited. So if you receive money from the casino in Curacao, then you have broken the law. You will receive the win in your German bank account and not in a foreign account. Your German bank account is bound by German law.

So in my eyes it makes a difference in which country the account is held, but of course I could be wrong. It makes sense to me. It would also be nice to read why you think it doesn't matter.

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MisterL
Expert

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

2nd Apr. 2025, at 11:38 pm CEST#999
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you can also set the fritzbox so that you can access the network from anywhere

always via the house connection

i think it's called vpn-tunnel

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Zockerbernd
Amateur

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

3rd Apr. 2025, at 06:04 am CEST#1000
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It doesn't matter whether the money ends up in your wallet in cash or is transferred to your account, it only matters where you are at the time of gambling, everything else is total nonsense legally and has no hand and foot, no court will get away with it. They have to prove that this is not the case, and no casino will hand over your IP logs when asked by the authorities. And if you want to be absolutely sure, play with a VPN and check with your favorite casinos to see if it's okay. Why should it also be forbidden to have the win transferred from the casino abroad to your German account? Please tell me where the law says that lol.

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Zockerbernd
Amateur

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

3rd Apr. 2025, at 06:20 am CEST#1001
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Suppose you play on site in a foreign casino in Macau or somewhere else, win a considerable amount as a High Roller and they say yes, we can only transfer it, then you say oh well then you can keep it, unfortunately I can't, I'm going home now, have fun with my win xDD Do you realize what nonsense that is?

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frapi07
Elite

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

3rd Apr. 2025, at 08:39 am CEST#1002
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Zockerbernd wrote on 03.04.2025 at 06:04: It doesn't matter whether the money ends up in your wallet in cash or is transferred to your account, it only counts where you are at the time of gambling, everything else is total nonsense legally and has no hand and foot, no court will get away with it. They have to prove that this is not the case, and no casino will hand over your IP logs when asked by the authorities. And if you want to be absolutely sure, play with a VPN and check with your favorite casinos to see if it's okay. Why should it also be forbidden to have the win transferred from the casino abroad to your German account? Please tell me where the law says that lol.


So according to your logic, it doesn't matter if you get the money in cash. So it's a criminal offense if I go to Holland and play in a casino there and bring the win back to Germany in cash? I've never read that it would be a criminal offense and many people generally do this. Whether in Holland, the Czech Republic or Las Vegas. Please tell me where the law says that

The place of residence plays a role, you're right, but not only that. That's also why it's not punishable if I play in Holland and receive my win in cash there and bring it into Germany.

Why should it be illegal to have the win transferred from the casino abroad to your German account? I have already answered that because the account is from a German bank. You have German rights, but also obligations that you must adhere to. You sign a contract when you open an account. For example, the Money Laundering Act also applies to your account. You have to comply with that, don't you? Unfortunately, it is forbidden to participate in illegal gambling according to § 285 StGB - and once again: German laws apply to your account, so it is illegal because the casino is not on the whitelist.



Incidentally, there are other ways to prove that you were in Germany at the time. You certainly own a cell phone. You certainly also have a SIM card. You can already prove that. Doesn't apply to cell phones either. Do you have a job and don't happen to be on vacation? Please provide other proof that you have been in Germany. Have you made card payments? Bank statements show that you were refueling and shopping in Germany at the time. Honestly, do you think it's that easy to fool them?


Zockerbernd wrote on 03.04.2025 at 06:20: Suppose you play on site in a foreign casino in Macau or somewhere else and win a considerable amount as a High Roller and they say yes we can only transfer it then you say oh yes then you can keep it unfortunately not, I'm going home now have fun with my win xDD Do you realize what nonsense that is or?

You used an example that doesn't really fit. Here we play on site. That's different from online. Look, I'm Italian (Italian ID). Different gambling laws and different limits apply in Italy, which is why it would be illegal to gamble there from Germany, for example.

If I am now in Italy (on vacation), register in legal Online Casinos there, open an ita. Bank account and process everything there, then I have no problems. It would be the same as with a brick-and-mortar casino. However, if I am on vacation there, register in a legal online casino there and have my win paid out into a German bank account, then in my opinion I am liable to prosecution because these casinos are not on the whitelist and the account is in Germany.

Edit: removed nonsensical Amazon link in quote

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Stromberg
Legend

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

3rd Apr. 2025, at 09:19 am CEST#1003
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Liked this post: Avatar von frapi07 frapi07
The complaints have increased, as have the (court) proceedings and thus the legal representation.
I would rule out with a probability bordering on certainty that none of the law firms would have come up with the idea of claiming that the client was not in Germany at the time of the game. And if the defense has already been tried in this way, it was probably not successful, otherwise all lawyers would argue this way and no one would ever be punished...

In my opinion, it can therefore be ruled out that this would at least work in the majority of cases...


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frapi07
Elite

Charge of unauthorized gambling ( 285 StGB)

3rd Apr. 2025, at 09:29 am CEST#1004
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Stromberg wrote on 03.04.2025 at 09:19: The complaints have piled up, as have the (court) proceedings and thus the legal representations.
I would rule out with a probability bordering on certainty that none of the law firms would have come up with the idea of claiming that the client was not in DE at the time of the game. And if the defense has already been tried in this way, it was probably not successful, otherwise all lawyers would argue this way and no one would ever be punished...

In my opinion, it can therefore be ruled out that this would at least work in the majority of cases...



You can track it anyway. You would really have to be undercover for it not to be provable. Even if you do without card payments, cell phones, etc. - there are things you can't cover. Work, for example

So, unless you are unemployed (but you would have to report vacations to the JC anyway lol), who doesn't have a cell phone, who didn't make a card payment at the time. You would have to be able to prove it otherwise, e.g. flight or train ticket. Even if you travel by car - hotel reservation etc. Everything where the name appears.

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