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Online Casinos in general: Boycott German casinos please (Page 4)

Topic created on 26th Jan. 2025 | Page: 4 of 5 | Answers: 65 | Views: 3,744
StarGames_Official
Top Member
Falke wrote on 29.01.2025 at 09:01:

So you nice casinos are benefactors, so to speak, because you don't write wins and can't afford a Don Perignon? So you're just doing it all for the players to bring them a bit of fun and without any significant win?

Sorry, but all that shines through in your post is that you casinos would rather rake in all the money instead of giving it to the state. I can understand that, but please stop taking people for fools and pretending it's not profitable for you. You have calculated your RTP in such a way that there is plenty of money left for the state and plenty of money left for you.

The only ones who suffer are the players. Nobody else. I certainly won't shed a tear for your millions in tax money.

Since you don't know our win & loss reports, we would suggest that you don't make such statements.

In Germany, the business is currently not profitable for many providers. They finance this either from the sports betting business, from the land-based business or from other European markets.

The market for online slots in Germany alone is not profitable - not even with these RTPs.

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R3hab
Elite

StarGames_Official wrote on 29/01/2025 09:26:
Since you don't know our win & loss reports, we would suggest you not to make such statements.

In Germany, the business is currently not profitable for many providers. They finance this either from the sports betting business, from the land-based business or from other European markets.

The market for online slots in Germany alone is not profitable - not even with these RTPs.

Interesting, so that means that you make more profit with sports betting than with slots? Unbelievable, I wouldn't have expected that

I always thought players would get more out of it, but in the end it's also an addiction that's hard to quit
With the slots there is now the 5 sec rule and 1 euro max bet, nobody wants to do that hahaha

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StarGames_Official
Top Member
R3hab wrote on 29.01.2025 at 09:41:

Interesting, that means that you make more plus with sports betting than with slots? Unbelievable, I would not have expected that now

I always thought the players would get more out of it, but in the end it's also an addiction that's hard to quit
With the slots there is now the 5 sec rule and 1 euro max bet there is no one up for it hahaha

Sports betting runs with a payout ratio of somewhere between 75-88%. If players win a lot in one day, then 88-100%. But basically it's lower than slots with 88 or 90% RTP.

And there is no Bet limit of 1 euro, as with slots, and tax is always deducted from the player's bet. Which hurts less with a bet than with a slot game.

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R3hab
Elite

StarGames_Official wrote on 29.01.2025 at 09:46:
Sports betting runs with a payout ratio of something between 75-88%. If players win a lot in a day, then 88-100%. But basically it's lower than slots with 88 or 90% RTP.

And there is no Bet limit of 1 euro, as with slots, and tax is always deducted from the player's bet. Which hurts less with a bet than with a slot game.

Interesting, thanks for the clarification.

But don't you have any good lobbyists who can make things clear so that the slots are more popular again 😜?

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frapi07
Elite

StarGames_Official wrote on 29.01.2025 09:26:

The market for online slots in Germany alone is not profitable - not even with these RTPs.

So will the RTP be lowered again in the future?


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mtorero
Amateur

StarGames_Official wrote on 29.01.2025 at 09:46:
Sports betting runs with a payout ratio of something between 75-88%. If players win a lot in a day, then 88-100%. But basically it's lower than slots with 88 or 90% RTP.

And there is no Bet limit of 1 euro, as with slots, and tax is always deducted from the player's bet. Which hurts less with a bet than with a slot game.

Comparing sports betting RTP with slot RTP is nonsense.


Don't forget, we don't yet have an online casino in Germany on the whitelist that offers slot machines.
What we have are Online Casinos that have absolutely nothing to do with a casino/gambling experience.

There is no casino in the world with such outrageous payout ratios because no customer would put up with such frustrating experiences in the long term. Therefore, as I said, a casino is not the same as a casino and should not be called that.

I have said it before. StarGames and its parent company Novomatic have certainly had a major influence on why online gambling in Germany is as much fun as a visit to the dentist.

There are ~ 100,000 offline Novomatic Slot machines in gaming arcades and pubs. These take the last few cents out of the pockets of gambling addicts without a legal minimum payout ratio and generate billions in profits for the company. An online offer with fair payout percentages would be a shot in the arm.

As a reminder: in 2021, when the offline casinos had to close due to the Covid lockdown, MERNOV (Mer)kur-(Nov)omatic mbH was issued its first license very quickly, quite by chance.

In the gambling markets in the USA or Asia, you will find virtually no gaming offers from these two providers because their lobbyists cannot exert as much influence there as they can in Germany and Europe, and quality counts.

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frapi07
Elite

mtorero wrote on January 29th, 2025 at 10:44 am:

Guys don't forget, we don't have an online casino in Germany on the whitelist so far that offers slot machines.
What we have are Online Casinos that have absolutely nothing to do with a casino/gambling experience.


What about Spielbank Bayern? They offer Slot machines (blackjack) and it's certainly not an online casino.

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Zockerbernd
Rookie

StarGames_Official wrote on 29/01/2025 09:26:
Since you don't know our win & loss reports, we would suggest you not to make such statements.

In Germany, the business is currently not profitable for many providers. They finance this either from the sports betting business, from the land-based business or from other European markets.

The market for online slots in Germany alone is not profitable - not even with these RTPs.

Hopefully you will all go bankrupt or it will no longer be profitable, so far I think Winfest was the only Provider that did not renew its license and left the market? I hope that happens to all of you. Then something has to change, but as I know the state, there is only one casino of their own where there are only Novoline and Merkur Slots where everyone "has" to play and is patronized where you can spend your hard-earned money even if you don't have any fun there just because of the 5 second rule. How some providers can stay on the whitelist is a mystery to me anyway, you know exactly that nobody plays there, I think everyone plays at StarGames, Wunderino, Lapalingo and very few at the others from the Gamblejoe Top 15 list.

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mtorero
Amateur

frapi07 wrote on January 29th, 2025 at 10:49 am:

What about the Spielbank Bayern? They offer Slot machines (blackjack) and it's certainly not an online casino.

Yes, the Bavarian casinos only offer games that are not in direct competition with the casinos. So unfortunately no slots online.

It would be nice, like in Switzerland, for example. But MERNOV, the GGL's directive issuer, will not allow this.

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frapi07
Elite

mtorero wrote on January 29th, 2025 at 11:31 am:

Yes, the Bavarian casinos only offer games that are not in direct competition with the casinos. So unfortunately no slots online.

It would be nice, like in Switzerland, for example. But MERNOV, the GGL's directive issuer, will not allow this.

Yes, they don't offer slots such as those from Novo, but they do offer "slot machines", which is why I was a little confused by your statement^^

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roccoammo11
Expert

Zockerbernd wrote on January 29th, 2025 at 11:30 am:

Hopefully you all go bankrupt or it's no longer profitable, so far I think Winfest was the only Provider who didn't renew his license and went off the market? I hope that happens to all of you. Then something has to change, but as I know the state, there is only one casino of their own where there are only Novoline and Merkur Slots where everyone "has" to play and is patronized where you can spend your hard-earned money even if you don't have any fun there just because of the 5 second rule. How some providers can stay on the whitelist is a mystery to me anyway, you know exactly that nobody plays there, I think everyone plays at StarGames, Wunderino, Lapalingo and very few at the others from the Gamblejoe Top 15 list.

This scenario is unlikely to happen and if slots are not profitable, you could also understand that there is still enough win being paid out...probably not to you That's how most people feel here...but anyone who can afford TV advertising and sponsorship for soccer is still a long way from "broke

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Falke
Expert
StarGames_Official wrote on 29/01/2025 09:26:
Since you don't know our win & loss reports, we would suggest you not to make such statements.

In Germany, the business is currently not profitable for many providers. They finance this either from the sports betting business, from the land-based business or from other European markets.

The market for online slots in Germany alone is not profitable - not even with these RTPs.

So just close it down if it's supposedly not profitable. But I'm certainly not going to start crying with you because your poor online casino makes so little money.


Ultimately, your statements can only be understood in this way: You don't want any improvement for the players, you're just annoyed that the state is raking in the win instead of your casino. So you're only interested in taking money out of the players' pockets and you're complaining that the state is already doing this.

And yes. Your casinos are then financed by international players. What sounds like a small amount to you is actually billions in wins that casinos make every year. Far too much money when you consider that casinos merely provide a website with a few spinning images.

And what about internationally? Have you ever campaigned for standardized international laws where players always receive their payouts and there is Player protection across all casinos? No? Why not? Perhaps because casinos make their money from at least 70% gambling addicts?

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StarGames_Official
Top Member
roccoammo11 wrote on January 29, 2025 at 11:48 am:

This scenario is unlikely to happen and if slots are not profitable you could understand that actually still enough win is distributed..probably not to you that's how most people here...but who can afford TV advertising and sponsorship in soccer is still far from being "broke

Almost nobody here is talking about bankruptcy, but things are not going as well as presented here in this commentary for the providers licensed in Germany.

Why weren't people ripped off in the past like they are today? Even the Curaçaos often do badly. The German booths even more so. Is greed so incredibly high among casinos and game manufacturers? Inflation? Russian oligarch gets sanctions because of the Ukraine war? Is the mafia being taken down too often and earning less? Everything too expensive? Is a yacht not enough? Prostitutes want more money at expensive parties? So why is it that most people only experience underground gambling sessions and no winnings, apart from the few small pipi payouts a year? The greed of man is untouchable

As is almost always the case, the truth lies in the middle.

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frapi07
Elite

StarGames_Official wrote on 29.01.2025 at 13:14:
The truth, as almost always, lies in the middle.

I don't know if the account is only managed by one person, but they already answered that yesterday^^

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StarGames_Official
Top Member
Falke wrote on January 29th, 2025 at 1:11 pm:
Then just shut it down if it's supposedly not profitable. I'm certainly not going to start crying with you now because your poor online casino makes so little money.

Ultimately, your statements can only be understood in this way: You don't want any improvement for the players, you're just annoyed that the state is raking in the win instead of your casino. So you're only interested in taking money out of the players' pockets and you're complaining that the state is already doing this.

And yes. Your casinos are then financed by international players. What sounds like a small amount to you is actually billions in wins that casinos make every year. Far too much money when you consider that casinos merely provide a website with a few spinning images.

And what about internationally? Have you ever campaigned for standardized international laws where players always receive their payouts and there is Player protection across all casinos? No? Why not? Maybe because casinos make their money from at least 70% gambling addicts?

Nobody is crying here and nobody expects you to join in. Unfortunately, you're also mixing up a lot of topics in a few questions that don't belong together or are difficult to answer. But we'll try.

Way too much money when you consider that casinos only provide a website with a few rotating images.

It may look like that to you as a layman, but if you were to take a look behind the scenes, you would be shocked at how many different integrations and how much technical complexity come together for these "few spinning images".

Have you ever campaigned for internationally standardized laws where players always get their payouts and there is player protection across all casinos? No? Why not?

Three different issues have come together here in one question.

1. Don't you think it would be easier for Online Casinos if they didn't have to build different rules, limits, integrations and logics just because one player lives in Germany, another in the Netherlands and another in Italy? Don't you think that casinos and providers would feel the same way as you, the players? Leaving aside the fact that Germany is breaking this down even further at federal state level, which makes no sense in the online sector anyway...

But gambling is an environment that is not regulated at EU level, but is left to the member states. Why it is like that... Good question. But you're right: it would be easier for everyone involved (players, providers, member states) if the wheel wasn't reinvented in every country and at least the same rules applied across the EU. But that's utopian.

2. Players always get their payouts here. 90-95% of the payouts even in real time. We can't and don't want to comment on what others do with a Curacao license.

3. But we are committed to it. That's why we have a cooperation with BetBlocker and promote this tool wherever we can. Find out more here: https://www.stargames.de/de/blog/news/stargames-und-betblocker-zusammenarbeit

BetBlocker allows players to block websites across countries and licenses. And it costs nothing.

Perhaps because the casinos make their money from at least 70% gambling addicts?

Your figure here is of course a pure provocation.

Addiction can of course be defined in various ways. However, there was an initiative by Unibet where they wanted to bring the revenue of players with a high Risk of addiction to 0. If we remember correctly, this value was usually 3-4%, as it was published regularly by the provider.

Again, it was not that 3-4% was made with gambling addicts, but that the players showed a high risk of addiction.

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