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Coping, therapiers, tips... : Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

Topic created on 02nd Feb. 2020 | Page: 1 of 4 | Answers: 33 | Views: 15,790
Massakaplayer
Visitor

Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

2nd Feb. 2020, at 10:04 pm CET#1
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Hello dear community,

I have at the moment frankly debts in the amount of about 45,000€. In addition to the fact that I have lived completely beyond my means (alcohol, sex, drugs), there was unfortunately the gambling addiction. Now I have thought about how I can get rid of the debts as quickly as possible and at the moment one reminder letter after the other flutters into my mailbox. In the meantime I have beaten the Gambling addiction and fortunately I have no more urge to gamble. The problem is that I have gambled away at least 40-50% of the debt. Now I have read that the residual Debt discharge can be denied if one has gambled the last 3 years in a form that does not correspond to the life situation. In the article is then further described:
https://anwalt-kg.de/newsbeitrag/privatinsolvenz-recht/kann-mir-meine-insolvenz-wegen-spielsucht-versagt-werden/

My question to experienced perhaps the step of the private insolvency already dared. May one hope only for the refusal of the remainder debt, if one did not gambled the letzen 3 years or like. That makes no sense I mean if one has the debt mountain already can one also not 3 years wait and then only then request place, so that the remainder is released. Or is that seriously done in practice? Within the 3 years of waiting, the creditors kill me anyway, then the PI is no longer worth it.

I only hope that I am wrong or that this will change in the future because this is discrimination without end. I mean as if debtors who squander the money differently have more rights to debt relief I find not exactly conducive. I ask for feedback dear community!

PS: Let the game it disrupts your life. Rather treat yourself to a girlfriend or undertake more with friends or or as soon as you are addicted to gambling it only goes downhill!

MFG your ex Massakaplayer

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gamble1
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Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

2nd Feb. 2020, at 11:03 pm CET#2
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So to my knowledge, the discharge of residual Debt can be denied if you have known about 6 months before the application that you are quasi bankrupt and assets that you could have paid to his creditors deliberately wasted

It does not matter whether you see the debt and 100 € gambled away or for 100 € a rental car for fun treats

It counts only whether one has wasted fortune consciously that one could have paid as already mentioned to his creditors

The insolvency should not be a free ride for people who want to gamble without losing money or who see where only fun and joy but rather for people who are indebted by incident and are trying as best they can just reduce their debts it is not possible in the long run so but

The discharge of residual debt presupposes good will to pay his debts and nothing else you do in the insolvency (at least in part)

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Massakaplayer
Visitor

Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

3rd Feb. 2020, at 12:56 am CET#3
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Hello Gamble1,

thank you for your feedback. Suppose I have assets in the form of income. This income I have deliberately used for gambling instead of paying installments for current loans, for example. Thus, it is the case that one has deliberately wasted assets, because one could have serviced the current installment with the income

Have I understood this correctly? Yes, if that is the case then I see the only possibility in a settlement with the creditors and if they do not agree then you are even more screwed. Because with private insolvency one must give garnishable income for the debts and in addition court costs, costs for insolvency administrator must pay. That are times fast on the debts at least + 9000€ on it and one has no requirement on the remainder discharge of debts. That is then new balance Ergo -54,000 which one may pay. I do not understand what is because if one would have only 500€ seizable income. Is one then (54,000/500) 108 months in the private insolvency?

A free ride is the PrivatInsolvenz nevertheless so or so not. The whole consequences that come with it one etc.. I understand but already what you mean. However, then a wage garnishment is worth it, to give in to enforcement much more or not. So no court costs insolvency administrator costs etc. come to it. Or just a settlement.

The only luck what I have is I can lower the load because 24,000 euros of the debts are monthly for 200€ payable and only after 18 months. That can be put away still well but the rest is soon immediately due. Yes the sooner one stops dear friends the less trouble one has. I am still happy that I am not the case: House and yard gambled away. If I had that would be perhaps quite away at my addiction time.

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gamble1
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Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

3rd Feb. 2020, at 03:42 am CET#4
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Liked this post: Avatar von Massakaplayer Massakaplayer
Of course I can't offer you any reliable legal advice or anything like that but only experiences but basically I would say yes that's how it is because as already said you could have paid your installments because A: you knew you had debts and B: you could have paid them

Insolvency is a good possibility but of course it should not be easy to do it is a kind of assistance second chance if you want so

In the time it is comparable with probation a condition violated or new debts made or wasted money and zack futsch is the residual Debt discharge

The good will is here in focus to pay for his debts according to his possibilities and as a small bonus the court gives you the release from the residual debt

Only so incidentally mentioned an application for refusal of the exemption must make to my knowledge also the creditors if they suspect that you have gambled away assets, wasted or otherwise done something with it that you can do I think even after completion but they must be able to prove it

I would advise you to contact your creditors Solution oriented is always better than doing nothing and with everyone you can talk to

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Grinderstyle
Rookie

Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

3rd Feb. 2020, at 05:37 am CET#5
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Liked this post: Anonym, Avatar von Massakaplayer Massakaplayer
Hey, there is a Debt counseling office in almost every city. Contact them. You can't get cheaper advice than that, and they also work with qualified lawyers.
There you can also get further advice on how to really make a fresh start. Because the discharge of residual debt is only worth something if you live differently afterwards. So all we can really do is recommend that you contact an appropriate office

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Massakaplayer
Visitor

Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

3rd Feb. 2020, at 11:36 am CET#6
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gamble1 wrote on 02/03/2020 at 03:42 PM

I would advise you to contact your creditors Solution oriented is always better than doing nothing and you can talk to everyone

Hello gamble1,

I made a phone call to the creditors back then after I stopped gambling to work it out. So to make an agreement how I could pay. According to the motto rather a little than nothing. What did the creditors always say to me. No Mr. xy either they pay the entire amount Z until (deadline) or we pass the claim to the collection. In my experience, very few people are willing to talk about money. I will try talking to lawyers and propose a settlement because of me the rate should be as high as he PI the garnishable income, so that no court costs insolvenzverwalter costs come on it

Yes then I stand halt in full height straight is also my Debt but PI I do not. Then I no longer go to work. 10.000€ should cost the fun so as a debtor again the punishment on top of course. I could upset me there now again whole day about it but that brings nothing. Fact is me is not helped because of these regulations even if I am wrong. So as a kind of second chance I do not see that because you only get the release as a reward if you were good. If not it means to hell with them 5 years of insolvency and then the creditors come back. I have read...Super! I love the system.

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Massakaplayer
Visitor

Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

3rd Feb. 2020, at 11:52 am CET#7
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I'm sorry if I seem so big-headed, you just want to help me. This is all so slowly getting to me. I have completely ruined my future for years. That is really very bitter. I try not to get depressed again. I have to write off money for years now. There are two things I'll never do again. Gambling and taking out a loan. Never again even if the credit rating is good again after 10 years. So either you pay yourself and live in the present whatever or you take out a loan and live in the past.

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gamble1
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Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

3rd Feb. 2020, at 04:04 pm CET#8
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So I had also already with some creditors zutun and also already with various collection agencies not directly because of gambling but because of other debts went with me about 8,000 € and everyone with whom I have spoken was very solution-oriented

Installment payment, new deadlines, etc

I could even agree with a lawyer 10 € a month with 3k debts because I have served there other places that was then a limited installment payment

Anything is better than nothing to do so everything is worse gibts with the creditor no installment payment then at the latest with the Debt collector or lawyer because mostly know the creditors zb. not that they get in the worst case nothing and the debt collectors or lawyers know that very well and there they prefer to work with you than all against you

Of course it is always better not to make debts but you come unfortunately also sometimes rather passively in the debt trap and can not choose all that

For me personally PI has not been a solution at any time simply because I wanted to stand up for everything even if it was hard

An old acquaintance of my wife has told me once he had a condominium and this was occupied with a Mietschnorrer he slipped then in Hartz4 and has left the apartment to a friendly Fillialleiter a bank that wanted to take care of everything

After a few years came from exactly this bank a bill for 100,000.00 € because with the apartment he has Quasi simply given up a lot has accumulated

What did he do he wrote the bank I live on Hartz4 and either you take 10k and waive or you will never get a cent from me what do you think the bank did? Right thanking the 10k he has borrowed from the family and waived 90k

With this I want to show that many debts can arise without the own zutun and that it is very difficult nowadays to have everything under control

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Mammon
Amateur

Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

3rd Feb. 2020, at 04:15 pm CET#9
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Massakaplayer wrote on 03.02.2020 at 11:52 am: I'm sorry if I seem so big-headed you just want to help me. This is all starting to get to me. I have completely ruined my future for years. That is really very bitter. I try not to get depressed again. I have to write off money for years now. There are two things I'll never do again. Gambling and taking out a loan. Never again even if the credit rating is good again after 10 years. So either you pay yourself and live in the present whatever or you take out a loan and live in the past.

Just go to a Debt counseling e.g. at Caritas. Each case is different and can not be generalized

In addition, it may be that some creditors do not apply when they are written by the insolvency administrator because they know exactly it comes to nothing. It has often happened that one then has fewer debts.

And you have your peace from the creditors as soon as the insolvency proceedings are opened. Then you have some time to change your situation. Court and insolvency costs can be deferred

Besides, you still have more money in your pocket if you go to work and pay off your insolvency installment than if you get Harz4

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Massakaplayer
Visitor

Private insolvency file refusal residual debt?

9th Feb. 2020, at 07:08 pm CET#10
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Hello Mammon,

Thank you for your contribution! The work is still worth it because I fully agree with you. But I would rather not have peace from the creditors if a better agreement can be reached than the private insolvency. Since it is very likely that it will not come to the residual Debt discharge (there is only one request from the creditor and I break) I will propose a settlement through lawyers. I do not want to talk the Caritas badly only I have read much that these and other debtor consultations with the extrajudicial settlement do not hang themselves correctly purely and suggest the private insolvency anyway as the best solution. I do not believe that almost 11,000 € in costs for the court proceedings and the insolvency administrator can be deferred. There the state collects again properly. Unfortunately, I do not want the taxes should be enough. Private insolvency is the simple more expensive solution. This seems to me like the next debt trap. I will probably go to lawyers I keep you guys up to date. Maybe then this thread will add value for similar cases

Kind regards

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